Vitesseman Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 HiI have just renewed the rear brake cylinders and found that whoever replaced the brake hoses did not fit a copper washer between the wheel cylinder and the hose. I was always told that this helped create the seal and also prevented corrosion between the alloy cylinder and the steel hose. I refitted without the washer but have ordered a could to fit at the weekend. Is it necessary to fit these nowadays?Also the bleed nipples althoug they are imperial...neither a 3/8 (too small) or a 7/16 (too big) fit the but. 10 mm is a great fit.... Even the hose end take a perfect 17mm spanner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hybrid nipples with UNF thread and metric head have become annoyingly common. Usually supplied with the cylinders, loose nipples are usually entirely imperial, or at least that's usually the case.While the alloy wheel cylinder may be soft enough to deform and make an adequate seal against the hose end, it's really not something I'd recommend. The copper washer should be fitted before use,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendervision Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I had to visit three shops to find copper washers when I did my rear brakes recently. The first two, a fastener specialist and DIY shop, claimed they'd not had copper washers in ages and didn't know when they'd get them. Finally found a small motor shop who split a multipack for me. Perhaps whoever was last at your brakes ran into the same problem. The metric head bleed nipple annoyed me too. Now I need different spanners to bleed the front and back brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Make your own if necessary.Piece of copper central heating pipe, cut open and flatten, drill holes first then cut into sections with a hole in each.No need to make them round!But after all that work, they may have hardened, so anneal them before use.Heat in flame until flame turns green - vapourised copper, doesn't need enormous heat!Allow to cool slowly.Best make a tiny oven, a slot between four bricks.Heat the bricks up, then heat the 'washers' in the oven and leave them there until tomorrow.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hi JohnI thought you quenched copper to anneal it?Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 It will anneal if left to cool, but not as effectively. Heat allows large crystals to form and quenching keeps them large, cooling slowly makes the crystals fracture more as the stresses affect the crystals for longer (effectively doing some work hardening). Done a bit of silversmithing in my time - same applies to gold and silver.Note: this is not the same for steels.Not often JD is wrong, and provided it's heated nicely (cherry red) it would still work for the purpose.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendervision Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Suddenly having to visit three shops for copper washers doesn't sound so bad :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 You'd be surprised how difficult it is to find copper washers from trade sources. Many are geared up to selling mixed packs, rather than large quantities of a single size,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.beal.org.uk/index.php?page=1&searchStr=copper&act=viewCat&Submit=Searchany use? mainly metric and bsp, but something may be suitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 That's quite a new development for Beal, they've not made it into their printed catalogues yet,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_256973_langId_-1_categoryId_165562 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Glen, casper,Thank you!"Learn something every day" Aristotle (or someone)JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G8HSV Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 ferny wrote:http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_256973_langId_-1_categoryId_165562Metric it says on the box....then it lists all the sizes in imperial !relatively cheap compared to the little blister pack containing say 4 for 2.99op only wanted a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendervision Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I paid 25p each for washers split from a similar multipack. That's a lot more than they are in the multipack but I'd only have the other 98 sitting in a drawer forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheherald Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 At the rate scrap prices are going, weigh the remainder of the packet in. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 As Glen and Casper say, heat to red heat - I use an old pair of small nose pliers to hold them on the very edge of the washer so they do not act as a heat sink - then quench in cold water swilling it around in the water to shake off the steam bubbles that will form on the surface of the hot metal and could insulate the metal and stop it cooling quickly. Standard technique that I taught in Technology lessons. Also works with brass.I often anneal old copper washers if I do not have a new one available at the appropriate size in my bulk stock - perfectly acceptable procedure provided you check that it is not leaking after fitment (never has when I have done it but there is always a first time).In our old Morgan three wheeler days our JAP/Matchless engines uses copper head gaskets and my brother and I would re-use them many times, annealing them each time over the gas ring on the family cooker and dunking them in the washing up bowl. Luckily we had an understanding mother! :)Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967 MkIII Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm reviving this thread as it's on the same subject, rather than start a new one.I'm fitting new brake hoses and trying to figure out where copper washers are needed. There are 4 points of contact on each side of course:Front straight into caliperFront through bracket into copper pipeRear through bracket into copper pipe on the wheel (same pipe routes round and into slave cylinder)Rear through bracket into copper pipe near the chassisWhile removing the old hoses, the only copper washers were between hose and caliper.ThanksSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967 MkIII Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 One more question. I'm having to redo the brakes because I sprayed them with WD40. However i saw some copper grease in the sleeve where the slave cylinder slides and on the adjuster. Should I copper grease anything lightly? what about a touch on the brake hoses into their threads? without getting it in the brake lines of course.Sorry for asking daft questions but i'd like to the job once and get it right! :)Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 No, no grease anywhere. Coppaslip is only used on the backs of the pads if you get brake squeal but isn't really necessary at all. Nor is WD40. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The only place I have seen copper washers is between the flexi hoses and calipers.Re copper grease, I have used a light smear on the metal brake pipe end threads and on the outside of the pipe where the end spins around the pipe. I also spray the unions/joints with protective wax once everting is all fitted and tightened up. This helps everything to come apart again in the future with less risk of damage.Again on the outside of the slave and for that matter anywhere else that you may end up working on sometime in the future (ie. suspension bolt shanks), there is nothing wrong with applying coppaslip or other such anti seize compound.Just stay away from pipe internals, friction material or rubber components! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cureton Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You should in my opinion use a smear of copperslip or similar between the slave cylinders and back plate as they tend to seize up over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Use a copper washer where the the nose of the hose is flat, and the outer butts against the part it's attached to.A tapered nose is designed to seal into it's female counterpart,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967 MkIII Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 thanks all much appreciated. hopefully next weekend will see me with sorted brakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazfg Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just received a full set of stainless steel brakes hoses from James Paddock. They came with 6 crinkle/ shakeproof washers and 2 copper washers.It wasn't until I came upon this thread earlier in the year that I'd heard mention of copper washers at all, definately no mention in the manuals I have.DO I only need copper washers for the rear brake hoses to wheel cylinder (hence why I only have 2 with my hose set), or do i also need them for the calipers....trying to work it out and thrown slightly by what the hose set I bought came with, especially as I also have 6 crinkle/ shakeproof washers?Hope someone may shed some light? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 3398 wrote:DO I only need copper washers for the rear brake hoses to wheel cylinder (hence why I only have 2 with my hose set), or do i also need them for the calipers....Yes to both wheel cylinder and caliper (four total). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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