p3t3 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hiya all. im hoping some of you guys can help me out here. I'm working on a project which im using herald type 14 disks and hubs on. i bought the full conversion kit from over at rimmerbros. Ive assembled them all to drawing but as i tighten up the castle head nut on the stub axles it seems to lock everything together stopping the disk from spinning. can anyone suggest what i may of done or doing wrong? here are some pic's of where im at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I was about to suggest the felt oil seal and cup were the wrong way round but the hub looks as if its in about the right position,central to the caliper etc.you are using the correct hub as it shows the machined back face, so that should not be fouling the caliper....have you replaced the bearings ???and the stub axle,,,I see it has a new nut the castle nut is way off its final position, and the outer bearing is not pressed in to its location shoulderi feel you have been sold the wrong outer bearings ?????? and maybe the stub axle ,hopefully the big washer has a D shaped hole in it to stop it rotating.Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 put loot on its the felt seal surround, they way too bigggggtake felt seal thingy off, and put old one on, just to see,it caught me out oncemarcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3t3 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 here is a pic of how the both bearing, inner and outer sit. the pen in the pic is just holding the washer up so you can see under it. the roller bearings on both sides sit perfectly in the race All the parts are new yeah, also the washer has got a flat on it to stop it spinning yescheers for the quick reply :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 show us the felt seal, bet its got too much metal onit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 You do know that the nut is not tightened as such, but just done up until there is just a hint of "rock" in the bearing, then locked in place with the split pin? Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs...... but you wouldn't be the first or last to have been confused by this!Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3t3 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 here is the sealive removed the felt seal in this pic and it still isnt giving me enough thread for the castle head bolt. Ive checked the stub axles, there the same as the old ones, bearings are the same too..just to check... this inner bearing is the correct way round isnt it?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3t3 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:You do know that the nut is not tightened as such, but just done up until there is just a hint of "rock" in the bearing, then locked in place with the split pin? Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs...... but you wouldn't be the first or last to have been confused by this!Nicknah not at all i appreciate the input :)i tightened them up then backed them off something like 1/4 of a turn until i got that hint of rock you mentioned yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Paterson Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Is the outer bearing race properly pressed into the hub?Looks like the bearing isn't pushing far enough into the hub (preventing the washer nut fitting properly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 the pic you got up o the thing by your comp, the bearing is sitting in normal spot, but the last one ye put up isnt, !!!! so , whats in there !!!!! you say you took the seal off and put the thing back together, but it still wont come down enough, right,!!!you have given it a good shuvv ,so its is sitting deep down i take it,pics of the inside if you got any, One last thing, the nuts on the upright, i take it they are not sticking out tooo far,[ dust sheild !! ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Bearing wrong way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Paterson Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 In this oneIt looks like the bearing race is right up at the opening of the hub. Doesn't look like the race is pressed in - but yeah we need pics inside the hub with the bearing out please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 In fact from both sides with the races out :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 inner bearing is definitly fitted the wrong way round has the outer bearing been fitted on top of/not removed the original outer cone ???the felt must face the stub axle, those look like the oversize dont fit well variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 inner bearing is definitly fitted the wrong way round has the outer bearing been fitted on top of/not removed the original outer cone ???the felt must face the stub axle, those look like the oversize dont fit well variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 your outer bearing is definitley fitted the wrong way round.as for the outer has the new cone been fitted without removing the old one ???the felt seals can have oversized cup spacer's , the cup should be a light push,tap fit into the hub recess and then the felt rubs between the spacer and the stub axle as a grease seal. so sequence is bearing, cup washer, felt and not bearing, felt , cup washer sorry its time to knock out all the bearings and start again tapered races to point together >< not <> or <<Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cureton Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 peterhlewis wrote:your outer bearing is definitley fitted the wrong way round.as for the outer has the new cone been fitted without removing the old one ???PeterI think Pete has probably hit the nail on the head. When you remove the bearing it will leave the outer race behind and you have to drift it out from the other side of the hub. It can be a pig to do but it will come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I tend to do it up tight and do just that, back it off until the wheel spins freely, check the rock, should be a couple of mm top to bottom.I always recheck after a short drive, they sometimes need re-setting, sometimes not. Guess if they don't fully seat initially?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 But the bearing rollers seemed to be well down on the first pic by the comp, but will no sit doon when actually in.funny this, as the races are in place . Pic inside of it will help.Sam, its a little awkward when new seals are used, as these take a little time to compress.nip it up well, and turn about, check and you may find you need to tighten moer.and when you run it a while, re check, as the seal does have a marked effect on the end float untill settled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Steve_Curton wrote:I think Pete has probably hit the nail on the head. When you remove the bearing it will leave the outer race behind and you have to drift it out from the other side of the hub. It can be a pig to do but it will come out.Surely the new bearing would protrude a lot more than the pictures show if the old outer race was still in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam93 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi p3t3Just changed the bearing ready for a disk conversion on my herald, mine seems to have gone in ok so hear are some pictures.it`s on the bench and open so if you would like any measurements or photos its no problem.Whilst I`m here.....is the end float critical or is "nip it up then loosen it till you can get the split pin in" (my dads advice) ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 thats more like it , the d washer comes about just underflush by about 1/2 a nut thickness, soon the troubled assembly the protruding bearing is either not fully home ,is the wrong bearing, or something is restricting its depth . the outer is really the wrong way round , yours looks fine . only really well grease the bearings, dont fill the cavity its not required,waste of grease and causes over heating.and end float on the whole range is 0.002" to 0.008" which without any measuring device is nip the castle nut to 5 lbft (just a nip by hand) and back off 1 flat or a little more to align the pin hole, yes the nut stays loose .if they are tight you will soon weld the outer bearing to the stub axle and cause expensive damage.0.008" will give about 3mm+ rock at the tyre perifery it feels a lot but thats correct.the end float is neccessary to acomodate the hub expansion due to brake heat tranfer .Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Your Dad's advice is pretty much right. I'd do the nut up tight(ish) and spin the wheel to make sure the bearings are seated. Then loosen it off, and tighten again while spinning the wheel until you feel it just start to nip up. Then back off a flat so that you can get the split pin in. As Pete says, checking the wheel's endfloat is a good check, and one you can do right before knocking in the dust cap and hub cap. Push and pull the rim top to bottom, not side to side, as that'll just show up play in the rack. Unless your bushes are knackered the only top to bottom play will be in the wheel bearings. 3mm is about right, enough to give the bearings room to expand, and not so much that the brake disc will push the caliper pistons back on corners.It would be a good idea to recheck the endfloat after a few miles. As new parts bed in the clearances might increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 "I think Pete has probably hit the nail on the head. When you remove the bearing it will leave the outer race behind and you have to drift it out from the other side of the hub. It can be a pig to do but it will come out"Actually the cup will have to come out first as the cone will not come out through it.Tapping the cup out with the cone in place could be fun!At least you agree with my reply of 21/3/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3t3 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 cheers guys for all the help!!ive got them all sorted now, my error, i hadnt pushed the bearing race in far enough at all, it did take loads of work to get it in though. i ended up making a drift to pressed it in with a vice, also used the hot cold technique and stuck the race in the freezer. not looking forward to day it needs replacing :-/ive swapped the other bearings round too. the old ones i copied from had been fitted wrong too. they now sit like pete lewis said.. >< and not >> :)Thanks again!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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