Cam followers

[Davemate]

Trying to explain an engine noise is very hard and probably a total waste of time
I seem to have a rumbley/tap coming from the "dizzy side" of the engine
I've set the tappets twice now and I'm quite happy there set correct
It seems to make no difference if the engine is hot or cold, the noise is loudest at tickover
When reved the noise seems to disappear only to return at tickover
The engine has good oil preasure, after ticking over for a few minutes when reved there is a bit of blue smoke out of the exhaust but once cleared or driving there is no more blue smoke until the engine is left to idle for a few minutes and reved again.
I'm fairly sure it's not the mains or ends and it doesn't sound like it's at the front of the engine, so that sould rule out cam chain and water pump.
I've only noticed the noise this week and I've been driving the car for two weeks and I think I only noticed it when I set the tappets. I followed the procedure from the manual(knowing the rule of 9 wouldn't work  :) )
The engine pulls very well and seems to running quite well other than this noise, when I set the tappets I did fit a alloy rocker cover but it's a square ended one so I don't think it's the rockers hitting it and I think the noise is lower down
A mate of mine reckons it could be the cam followers
If I have to remove the head to check them what am I looking for, I wouldn't have thought cam followers would cause a knock if the tappets are set correctly

Any other suggestions

Ps, although it seems to be working ok the fuel pump is the standard manual one and I have noticed that the hand prime leaver is "up" so you can't hand prime it. When the engine is up and running if the fuel pressure is up to its level the pump stops pumping,is this why the priming leaver is "up", I've not touched the fuel pump at all since owning the car.

Sorry for the long post
The car will be at the next North London meet for folks to have a listen to

[Pete Lewis]

have you tried the old stethoscope trick by holding a large wooden handled screwdriver on places on the block and sticking the handle in your ear,  easy to move around and locate where the noise is most pronounced, dont get it in the fan or A&E have to physically remove it   ouch !

dont feel cam followers will rumble but the cam tail bearing could.
I have seen semi seized followers due to debris from head cleaning being left down the follower chest which scored the followers and their bores.  ,, no rumble just continuous tappet type clatter you cant seem to eliminate.

the prime lever on your pump sounds seized if it stays 'up'  it is not directly connected to the cam lever but does drop the diaphragm if demand allows and the lever is not on the cams lift stroke,  there is a lost motion set up to stop the diaphragm
rod moving the hand primer.

maybe it has the wrong pump  fitted in its life and the cam lever is in hard contact  ?

Pete

[Davemate]

Went all over the engine with a mechanics stethoscope,couldn't really nail it down  :-/
It did seem louder on the dizzy/plug side and about a third of the way down but not in one specific area

[GT6 M]

but wot ye set the rockers to
set em to book figure is useless if there an indent in the pads.
try set,n em to 6 ish, as set to 6 with a 4 indent will = 10, follow.!!

M

[JimEB]

796 wrote:

but wot ye set the rockers to
set em to book figure is useless if there an indent in the pads.
try set,n em to 6 ish, as set to 6 with a 4 indent will = 10, follow.!!

M

Wise words  :)

Dave: have you taken off the rocker assembly to see how worn the rocker arm faces are?

[Davemate]

Jim,no I havn't

M, I've set them to 10 thou as the book said, I am well aware that they could be way out but they were mostly loose even if only by a couple of thou.
I'll be getting one of those click adjust things this week so I'll be able to set them spot on.
I would say my noise is more of a dull knock.
It sounds like a deisel ,but then tonight it ticked over fine with just an odd knock now and then
I'll try and video it tomorrow

[GT6 M]

I'll be getting one of those click adjust things this week so I'll be able to set them spot on.

Says Dave,

ohhh no ye wont,  :o

this nokk,n sound, it aint like the noise I got is it, like a steam train idleing !!!
ive come to the conclusion its blowby an piston slapp!!

M

[Davemate]

I thought these "click and adjust" things are good, the logic sounds spot on.
Insert a 20 thou feeler gauge(nice and thick so it doesn't flex)wind down the click adjuster until it clicks, then back it off counting the clicks until the gap is 10 thou bigger. Let's just say that's 10 clicks.
Remove the feeler gauge and useing the click adjuster wind it down so the tappet gap closes up compleatly and then wind  the click adjuster down until it  makes a loud click. This means the tappet has now closed up to zero, if there's an indent it won't matter as the gap is zero it wouldn't matter how much of an indent as it just means both surfaces are touching. Then wind the adjuster up 10 clicks, the tappet gap is now set to 10 thou, if you now checked the gap with a feeler gauge you may well only be able to get 1 or 2 thou reading due to the indent but the actual gap of the two bits of metal will be 10
Don't mean to teach you to suck eggs, but would this not be an accurate way of setting the tappet gap no matter how much of an indent has been warn into the rocker pads

I'll record the sound tomorrow, I really do hope it's not an engine strip down and rebuild as the jar of pennies is totaly empty  :(

[Davemate]

I thought these "click and adjust" things are good, the logic sounds spot on.
Insert a 20 thou feeler gauge(nice and thick so it doesn't flex)wind down the click adjuster until it clicks, then back it off counting the clicks until the gap is 10 thou bigger. Let's just say that's 10 clicks.
Remove the feeler gauge and useing the click adjuster wind it down so the tappet gap closes up compleatly and then wind  the click adjuster down until it  makes a loud click. This means the tappet has now closed up to zero, if there's an indent it won't matter as the gap is zero it wouldn't matter how much of an indent as it just means both surfaces are touching. Then wind the adjuster up 10 clicks, the tappet gap is now set to 10 thou, if you now checked the gap with a feeler gauge you may well only be able to get 1 or 2 thou reading due to the indent but the actual gap of the two bits of metal will be 10
Don't mean to teach you to suck eggs, but would this not be an accurate way of setting the tappet gap no matter how much of an indent has been warn into the rocker pads

I'll record the sound tomorrow, I really do hope it's not an engine strip down and rebuild as the jar of pennies is totaly empty  :(

[GT6 M]

Dave, thats all OK,   IF, the nuts and adjusters run free.
some nuts or adjustes have the threads distorded, so they are tight.
this tightness meks the tool think its actually tightened up the gap
but it aint, so ye get a rang result

other prob is the socket will prob be have to be modded
either cos its too long,or most likely cos its got too much taper lead in.
this taper lead in, combined wid worn of  HALF nuts = slipped action of tool,cos its hardly,if at all, engage,n the two t,githa  = rang gaps agen.

Ive had a few diff types, got off boot sales, all a real faff to wurk wid,
even after modding the socket
So, need to mek sure yer threads are running smoooothe, and the socket is ok as well as the nuts.
but gud luk.

M

[south sea pommie in aussie]

Are we not getting away from the fact that the rockers are case hardened and  if there is wear on the faces ,they need replacing .No matter how you set the tappets you are only treating the symtom and not the cause .Do it once and do it right .Not adding a bodge to another bodge.The smoke is worn valve guides and the noise sounds like piston slap or a noisy gudgeon bush ( little end)either way your engine is showing signs of wear.If you insist on wanting to adjust the tappets with wear on the rocker arm face ,buy a cheap chinese dial gauge and magnetic base and check your clearance by using this to measure your clearance on the top of the rocker.But this is still only putting off the inevitable.

[Pete Lewis]

avoid deep pocket thoughts until you have runner and have time to judge just how far you want to go  utopia is great but
expensive,  depends how many miles you expect to use the car for

as a cheap check have you checked the dizzy drive gear end float, ??? ( has  shims under the pedestal ) if excessive these can set up a dull clatter

and is the noise cam speed or crank speed   ?

Pete

[Davemate]

Not had time to video the engine, should be able to do it tomorrow

[dazzer]

Piston slap should improve as the engine warms up and the pistons expand.

[Davemate]

This sounds really bad, it doesn't sound as bad to the human ear  :-/
Cold knock
http://youtu.be/nXTCtjUvYDc
It's not really hot, but I've been for a 10 minute drive around local streets
Not quite as bad but it's still defiantly there
Hot knock
http://youtu.be/BF-RbSE3IG4
The engine pulls very well and seems strong, no smoke on start up but if left idling for a few minutes when revved there will be a bit of blue smoke as the revs rise. If you drive off a light blue cloud gets left behind but that's it, there's no more smoke until you let it idle again, and then rev it.

[dazzer]

Does sound like slight piston slap but absolutely nothing to worry about. Sounds fine. You might get a little crankcase comp but perfectly normal. Mine is much louder than that cold because I set the engine up with larger tolerances to avoid seizing. They also go much better when a bit loose.

Personally I wouldn't touch it. Drive it and enjoy.

Mines been slapping and smoking from the open breather for approx 30k now, but has great oil pressure and plenty of power. Leave well alone and save your cash for something else.

Fit some gravel rally tyres then you won't hear anything for the road noise

Cheers

Dazzer

[Davemate]

Dazzer,
         I've got no choice I've got to just drive it,I'm skint  ;D
It does have very good oil  pressure   :) (kiss of death now !)
I'm a bit disappointed the 6-3-1 manifold didn't fit unless I grind the side mount off, but as soon as the pennies allow I'll be buying a new head gasket so I can pull the head and fit the PI cam,grind the mount to fit the 6-3-1 and see what's involved in fitting the 175 stromburgs I have in a box waiting for their turn  :)
I have to save up for a new clutch as well as all is good when cold,but once you've been driving for a while and that's even on a motor way with no changing gear when you put your foot down,the last wee bit of the pedal movement is jerky,which isn't a problem but you can't raise the pedal smoothly.
The clutch is either on or off,is impossible to bring the pedal up smoothly,if you leave the car for 5 or 10 minutes the pedal is smooth for a few dips of the clutch and then it's back to a juddery pedal.
I'm guessing it's a contaminated friction plate.

[dazzer]

I've got a heavy duty clutch fitted and its a bit that way anyway. If its not slipping I'd possibly leave it. Are the bushes OK on the pedal cross shaft? Grab your clutch pedal and see if it has any waggle in it. CW does cheap replacement bushes if it helps, as that is sometimes the problem. Or just push a bit of grease into them.

I like 2000s because they never actually completely break, (touch wood) they just get a bit flakey on the edges and regenerate themselves!

Cheers
Darren

[Davemate]

I'll check but as I said when it's cold it's ok,once driven for 10 minutes or so that's when it's not. I would have thought if it was the pedal shaft it would be like it all the time.

[Nick Jones]

It might be the release bearing carrier sticking on the input shaft nose tube.  Common issue on TRs especially and much discussed on the Buckeye Triumphs site.

Nick

[Pete Lewis]

on my newly acquired 2000 Im contemplating drilling the clutch housing thro the bush and fitting a greaser to lube the lousy cross shaft bushes ,  this seems an exposed weak link in smooth operations.

just n idea

Pete

[Tim Bancroft]

I had exactly the same issues as Dave with my 2.5 when I bought her. Found that the release bearing carrier had a big piece chipped out, all fine with new carrier and bearing.