Steering Help

[David G]

Hi all,
Would much appreciate your help on an MoT failure.

I've had my Spit a few months now (1977 1500), had great fun with it last summer - too many years of driving Euro boxes had made me forget how much fun a real car was - anyway, been doing some rolling resto work over the Winter after the MoT man poo poo'd playtime!
Already learnt loads of stuff from your posts and have fixed all the failure points (nothing major) except this one, so hoping you can help me out.

Problem is that with the front end off the ground and the wheels on full lock (turning right) the inner edge of the n/s/f tyre hits the anti roll bar. Doesn't happen on the o/s when turned to the left (clears it by approx 15mm). When the car is dropped back down to the ground and put on full lock to the right, the tyre gets nowhere near the anti roll bar.

I have replica Minilites on, they are the correct size and offset with the correct tyres. I've also put on my spare which is an original steel wheel and the problem is the same.

So my question is (questions are):
Is the MoT man being too strict - given the cars turning circle and the fact that once on the ground the problem goes away?
If not, is this something that can be adjusted or do I need to be looking for something that is worn or broken?

Hope to fix this soon as the sunny weather is making my right foot itch!
Many thanks in advance,
David

[CharlieB]

Your steering rack could be off centre on its mountings or the track rod ends adjusted unevenly.

[junkuser]

In itself this does seem rather harsh but maybe he is regarding this as an indication that there may be a more serious problem in the steering causing it such as bent steering arms or uprights.
Does the anti roll bar look central and symmetrical?  
Measure ends from chassis as a starting point but don't expect things to be perfect.
If the bar looks not to be the problem it is just a matter of checking out the rest of the steering components and chassis..
As he has noted this problem he will want a logical explanation as to the cause.

Edit.
CharlieB has posted while I was composing and his suggestion is the type of thing you are looking for.
Centralising the rack is facilitated on the the early Spits and probably on yours, by removing the grease nipple on the top of the "box" and inserting a thin rod to locate a drilling in the rack.  A good starting point as Charlie suggests.

[Gt6s]

Your mot guy's being a bastard you can'not drive it like that.

[Dicky Blighter]

Wecome to the forum - no doubt you will get plenty of advice on this one as to how to try to fix it - but you don't need to.
Your MOT man is wrong - this should be tested with the car in its normal running position

Relevant bits from MOT Testers Manual are here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_240.htm
and here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_250.htm
But especially here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_220.htm

Main bit (from 2.2) that applies to this situation is:


Information
Types of suspension covered
This sub-section applies to all suspension types.
It is important that these inspections are carried out
·   with the suspension substantially in the normal running position
·   on vehicles not fitted with a beam axle with the steered wheels resting on turning plates that move freely  
The use of turning plates is not mandatory for Class 5 vehicles but should be used if available and suitable.

Vehicles with a beam axle can alternatively be raised from the ground as in Figure 1, Suspension Type Diagram, and this inspection carried out at the same time as the inspections in sub-section 2.5a.

Method of Inspection
1.  With the front steered wheels resting on unlocked turning plates and using the steering wheel turn the steering from lock to lock and assess the steering system for any tightness or roughness in operation.

2. With the front steered wheels resting on unlocked turning plates turn the wheels from lock to lock. Check for
a.  fouling, particularly brake hoses

b.  brake hoses or brake pipes stretched or twisted

c.  security and correct adjustment of lock stops if fitted

Note:  Some vehicles have lock stops comprising soft metal pads on the body for the front tyres to rub against.  These are acceptable if they are properly maintained so that they do not damage the tyres.

d.  condition and security of steering rack gaiters Note:  Expand steering rack gaiters for proper examination

Reason for rejection
1.  Excessive tightness or roughness in the steering mechanism.
2.
a.   a component of the steering mechanism, road wheels or tyres fouling any part of the vehicle
b.  a brake pipe or brake hose stretched, twisted or seriously damaged

c.  
·   an incorrectly adjusted lock stop
·   a loose, damaged or insecurely locked lock stop
d.  an insecure, split or missing steering rack gaiter

Thats why MOT ramps have swivel plates under front wheels so you can check lock to lock laden clearance

The steering rack may indeed be off centre as Charley B says but only slightly as you only have 15mm clearance the other side - shift it across 7.5mm to even up and you may well find tyres then touch ARB both sides if jacked.

[David G]

Many thanks for your help chaps,
Been out tonight and had a measure around - the ARB is centred and symmetrical - as much as you'd expect on a Triumph anyway!
Everything else looks as straight, measures as it should and appears to be in the correct place. Can't see anything that looks to be damaged.
I guess in some sort of way this is good.

Think I'll go and have a chat with the MoT man before I take it back to him and get his take on Dicky's MoT info.

Thanks again, will let you know how I get on.

David

[David G]

Just thought I'd drop an update on my MoT re the n/s tyre hitting the ARB - went and had a chat to the MoT man the other day and explained what Dicky had said - ok he said bring it back and we'll have another look.
So today I took it back and he said "yep, can't see any problem with that" so it passed - well it passed after he told me to take it for a blast down the motorway to get it to pass the emissions test! I guess that's what six months sitting in the garage does. He also explained the correct way to adjust the handbrake - as mine is c**p and despite my best efforts it adjusting it, it really should have failed!
Anyway green certificate in hand - next stop post office for road tax, then hey ho I can feel a sunny drive coming on.
Just goes to show not all MoT men are gits or jobsworths.
Thanks again for your help - I'm sure I'll be back for more advice soon as no doubt driving it regularly will uncover more "Triumphisms"!
David