Cambouis Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Hello.I'm new here so please be kind!I'm a mechanic, working in France and I have here a 2.5PI 1970 that the boss bought for a very fair price as a non runner. It now runs after I rebuilt the fuel injection and its pump (I have a fair amount of experience with Lucas injection).I thought I would save some money and rebuild the very leaky PAS rack myself and bought a kit of sealsI have read elsewhere that this is a DIY proposition. I would say just possibly but I doubt it. The problem I have in particular is the four plastic rings that fit onto the shaft in the control tower. I have in fact wrecked some of them since they are so inflexible and their internal diameter is so small that the stretch even if one can get them onto the shaft! I even tried putting the part into the deep freeze overnight to try to shrink it a bit as I would when fitting bearings. No go.Has anyone done this job? And if so what am I doing wrong?! Is it "special tools"?Thanks in advance.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Hi Paul,can't help you with your problem though, but I was wondering if your car was left hand drive? I haven't heard of a LHD saloon with PAS yet!Curious,Thorsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Thanks Thorsten.Yes it's LHD, originally supplied in Paris.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Update:Lacking another seal kit, I decided to try to save the stretched plastic seals (three of the four in fact).I wrapped them in cloth and compressed them for an hour each with a hose clamp - unfortunately I didn't have any shim material which would have been ideal. Anyway with the aid of a "persuader" - a Brummagem screwdriver - I managed to get the well-lubricated piece back into its housing and it feels pretty much OK.Now the next problem: the housing at the other end from the control tower contains a thick rubber seal. Unfortunately this is retained by a steel ring pressed into the housing. the only way I could imagine removing the ring would be with a large bearing extractor and heavy slide hammer as there is no way whereby it can be clouted from the other end - nothing to get on.If you are tempted to rebuild your power steering rack, make sure that you have a) a great deal of patience and b) a completely fully-equipped workshop or garage!This is not a DIY project!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 More woe!I tried the rebuilt rack today and there is a huge leak at the input shaft, so something's wrong int he control tower (probably the plastics seals!) (verymad)Does anyone have an exploded diagram of a 2.5PI power steering rack? I suspect that this would be rather helpful!Thanks in advancePaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 1761 wrote:Does anyone have an exploded diagram of a 2.5PI power steering rack? I suspect that this would be rather helpful!Do you have a copy of the blue Triumph Workshop Manual? :-/I think there is a copy of the Stag manual on the net in PDF format (same rack & pump as a 2000 / 2.5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Hello Paul, here's one from the parts manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Gentlemen; thanks you so much for your replies and in particular Piman for posting the illustration. Sorry to say Richard, as you will have guessed I do not have the manual: the car is not mine and being in France I have no idea if I'll ever see another!Thanks for the tip about the Stag manual: I'll have a look for it: perhaps it will tell me the procedure for those &#à@@!!! plastic rings!Thanks again,Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StagNL Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 1761 wrote:Thanks for the tip about the Stag manual: I'll have a look for it: perhaps it will tell me the procedure for those &#à@@!!! plastic rings!I have plucked one off the net: http://www.donkennedy.co.uk/StagManual.htmJulian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted April 12, 2010 Author Share Posted April 12, 2010 Thank you Julian; downloading now.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I thought you could buy the kit of parts to recon the rack - I'll take a look, I may have dreamt it.Paul - you have experience with the PI pump? Any experience on reclaiming the brass pump bodies? I'd be interested in your war stories :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Nope I wasn't dreaming http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triumph-STAG-2000-2500-Power-Steering-Rack-SEAL-KIT_W0QQitemZ290423870930QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item439e9c95d2#ht_500wt_956 where abouts in France are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted May 6, 2010 Author Share Posted May 6, 2010 Hello Jason,And many apologies for the long delay in replying.Yes one can buy seals from Rimmer's, but I should have read the manual before I started: I have disturbed the dreaded eccentric screw... And those plastic seals, which are included in the kit are also not supposed to be disturbed - so why are they included???Yes i have experience with the PI pumps and with the metering units, although the vacuum control unit requires special equipment to set up so I have left them alone. It would be nice to have an opportunity to fiddle with one though!I started with Lucas Petrol Injection about twenty years ago, when I bought a four-cylinder race unit (from a FORD FVA engine) and eventually installed it onto my Lancia Fulvia; this was a considerable success after a fair amount of grief, considering it was as usual all done on a shoestring.Unless you are a fanatic for originality I would forget about the Lucas pump. As you probably know, the pump itself is a nice part, sadly bolted to a lot of electrical rubbish! On the Lancia I have used two Bosch pumps connected in series as I run the system at 110PSI. I used one from a Porsche and another from a Lancia Dedra or perhaps FIAT Uno Turbo. On the 2.5PI I am working on here, I was lucky in that I had some spare Lucas pumps that I bought a few years ago on ebay (as I had hopes of adapting one to mechanical drive on the Fulvia with an electric pump just for starting.) I managed to make a decent (!) motor from bits of three others; all the pumps themselves are quite good. If it were my car then I'm afraid it would be Bosch!When you say wear, do you mean grooves in the flat surfaces?Best wishesPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted May 6, 2010 Author Share Posted May 6, 2010 PS Jason,I am in Evian les Bains, on the shore of Lake GenevaP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Ahh, Lancia. So that would make you Paul de Raymond Leclercq then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Jason wrote:Ahh, Lancia. So that would make you Paul de Raymond Leclercq then?Ha ha - c'est moi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Just call me a cyber stalker :-) Do you still have the Lancia?What I mean about the pumps is that I can reclaim the electric motors but when a pump doesn't perform there doesn't seem to be much I can do to improve it. I can get another 10 maybe even 15 psi out of one by reworking it but that's about it :-( I was just looking for some fresh magic :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Jason wrote:Just call me a cyber stalker :-) Do you still have the Lancia?What I mean about the pumps is that I can reclaim the electric motors but when a pump doesn't perform there doesn't seem to be much I can do to improve it. I can get another 10 maybe even 15 psi out of one by reworking it but that's about it :-( I was just looking for some fresh magic :-)Hello. yes I still have it and it still works, though I'm not actually running it t the moment.We're a bit off-topic here, but still... regarding the Lucas fuel pumps, obviously you have a fuel pressure gauge. Now, the next thing you need is an ammeter. If the pump can deliver the rated pressure (105psi say 7 bar) then at that point with a good fully-charged battery it should draw between 5 - 5.5A. If it's drawing much more then it's faulty - equally if it won't make the pressure 8):)I stripped three pumps, and having a "growler" here was able to check the armatures; two, with blackened copper windings were faulty and third with bright copper was OK. It's drawing 5.2A!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I wish I had a growler but sadly out of my range :-( I have lots of pumps here :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Jason wrote:I wish I had a growler but sadly out of my range :-( I have lots of pumps here :-)Well the one here is on loan! You can check the armature first visually the colour I think is important and then nasally - my bad ones smell a bit! Finally with a meter measure the resistance between adjacent commutator segments, from memory this should be around 0.2 ohms. If you get an odd (high) reading, then check the soldering to the commutator segments; a short circuit of course means the armature is finished.If the motor is good, then wear in the pump or a faulty pressure relief valve must be the cause.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambouis Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Finally...FINALLY...F-I-N-A-L-L-YIt works.Quick summary: the four white seals that fit into the control tower shaft are PTFE; no picnic to fit without SPECIAL TOOLS as I found out from a very helpful bloke in the UK.OK here's what he suggested. Make a 45° cut in each seal, this way they can be fitted without stretching and subsequent shrinking for which the tools are required.I did this, and yes no leak - but a new problem: the gaiter adjacent to the control tower was severely pressurised - full of oil and the steering turned left by itself.The latter problem was caused by my fiddling with the SCREW THAT MUST NOT BE TOUCHED, the eccentric one on the control shaft.Luckily the helpful bloke had the information that is not given in the manual, so after rebuilding the whole thing again except of course for the PTFE seals which were OK, I mounted it onto the car. Good, no balloon-like gaiters, but turning left.Now the final tricky bit: with a 3/16" Allen key it is just possible to remove the little plug at the bottom of the control tower (Adwest type), with a can ready to collect the oil that runs out. It is impossible to see into the hole, but by feel one can locate the screw - after rotating the steering by moving the hub nearby. I gave it a good tweak, and then spent about five oily minutes getting the plug back into its hole.And finally it all worked with no leaks.They say it's a two hour job; I suppose I have spent about a week on it.Never again!Thanks to everyone for their help and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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