Looking for an SAH Rear axle

[junkuser]

That's because they have rocks in their heads Nick.

[timtiger]

Hi Nick,
My brother in law is from Moranbah. Coal mining; right?  I do a lot of reasearch work with Kiwis. I think Kiwis are great and it is a most excellent country. There are only a few Kiwis left over there and it is a small but excellent country. The thing I like most about Kiwis is that they don't buy into the "you are too small and don't have the resources to compete with the big players". In general they just do it smarter and in lateral ways. And they are brought up in a do it yourself culture. Most Kiwis I know could fix a space shuttle with chewy and fencing wire. Also, I have never met a NZ wine from Marlborough that I did not like a lot! My mate in Auckland sometimes puts a few bottles in a Chully Bun with a slucker puck and sunds it across the dutch eh bro.

Back to the car. No go on a replacement SAH axle. Greg Tunstall in Queensland has the broken one apart and he is mystified. He says it has been mucked around with. The SAH setup has roller bearings in the hub rather than needles running on the axle surface. The metal under this bearing has been sleeved and cut in for no reason - maybe dodgy lathe work. So it looks like the axle was damaged or sheared and an unsuccessful sleeve repair was attempted. It also looks like the Dolomite axle end is different and we will have to chop up a new Spitfire axle and weld it onto the axle half with the rotoflex web on it to get a working axle.

I want my car back!!!!!!!!!

[junkuser]

Would be nice if you could avoid a weld in the load bearing area where the bearing sits.
If the SAH axle was made out of a Spit axle originally, with splines cut to fit the spider for the rotoflex, this would be the way to go.
If it was a special axle then this would probably not be possible but if there was a way to fit the spider to an axle that had not been welded, or at least not welded in a weight bearing area, it would be preferable. e.g. welded near the spider.

[CharlieB]

Simplest solution would surely be to convert back to standard swing spring setup?

[GT6Craig]

Quote:

P.S. I tried to post a picture of the car but computer says "no". File size is 170KB.

Ha ha so you get Little Britain over there then?

Sign up to www.photobucket.com, useful little site for uploading photos, and once you have done so you just hover over the photo, when the window pops up copy the "IMG Code", paste it into your message and wallah, photo appears!
Apologies if you familiar with this already - just very eager to see some photos!

[Paudman]

CharlieB wrote:

Simplest solution would surely be to convert back to standard swing spring setup?

No, I like his intentions - it would be one of the very few cars still running the SAH system, and like most period mods would be a talking point at shows. To get the car on the road, yes - but to keep it as it is now would be preferable.

[Gt6s]

CharlieB wrote:

Simplest solution would surely be to convert back to standard swing spring setup?

ABSOLOUTLY !

The SAH tite-a-turn is complete garbage.
IT DOES NOT WORK !
So bad it locks itself solid after limited suspension movement due to conflicting radius between the spring, the lower arm and radius arm, the later being the problem child, the geometry is completly wrong. Triumph used the inner arm position on rotoflex for this very reason.
You may as well use solid bar instead of shock absorbers.
"DANGEROUS" as previously stated by Nick Jones.
REMOVE IT ASAP !

[Richard B]

Gt6s wrote:

The SAH tite-a-turn is complete garbage.
Triumph used the inner arm position on rotoflex for this very reason.

or fit Gt6 Rotoflex tie-bars  & reloacte the brackets :-/

[Nick Jones]

It has other issues - at least the set I had briefly did, I assume they are all the same.

Issue 1:  The outer shaft is supported on two ball bearing races held on the shaft by friction alone.  These do take the cornering loads as the rotoflex prevents the cornering load being transmitted to the diff bearings as on the standard swing axle set-up.

Issue 2:  Normally, rotoflexes are used in compression (ie you don't take the band off until they are safely fitted).  This helps the bonded joints at the segment end to survive.  On the SAH set I had you had to take the bands off to get the bolts in.  Thed guy I got from from reported very short roto life.  Also they are as used on Hillman Imps and smaller than the later factory rotoflex.

I do have to say that if they have really been on the car for decades and done 150K miles, I am impressed, but can't help but wonder how many wheel bearings and rotoflexes they have consumed in that time  :)

Nick

[Gt6s]

Nick_Jones wrote:

It has other issues - at least the set I had briefly did, I assume they are all the same.

Issue 1:  The outer shaft is supported on two ball bearing races held on the shaft by friction alone.  These do take the cornering loads as the rotoflex prevents the cornering load being transmitted to the diff bearings as on the standard swing axle set-up.

Issue 2:  Normally, rotoflexes are used in compression (ie you don't take the band off until they are safely fitted).  This helps the bonded joints at the segment end to survive.  On the SAH set I had you had to take the bands off to get the bolts in.  Thed guy I got from from reported very short roto life.  Also they are as used on Hillman Imps and smaller than the later factory rotoflex.

I do have to say that if they have really been on the car for decades and done 150K miles, I am impressed, but can't help but wonder how many wheel bearings and rotoflexes they have consumed in that time  :)

Nick

Do'nt doubt any of that. I did not have my set long enough to investigate these other issues. Was asked to resolve the problems on a car with it fitted, I replaced it with a swing spring SORTED.
The owner now has a rear suspension that works and he can get bits for, the later being the origin of this thread.

[timtiger]

Hi all.
Thanks for the firmly held advice.
I cannot seem to upload photos. I don't use photobucket but do use Flickr that is similar.
Here is our Flickr site if you are interested in seeing the dead blue spitfire.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisa-tim/sets/72157615603629114/

Here is another story that I am sure anyone who has been to North Australia could appreciate.
When we picked up the car in Townsville, My wife and I meandered south. We stopped on day 2 at the Capricornia caves near Rockhampton for a couple of hours. I parked the car in the caves carpark which is green and surrounded by trees and off we went underground. What I didn't know if that a small tree branch that was not touching the windscreen when we parked had drooped for some reason and was just touching the screen. I very large nest of green tree ants thought they would move into and occupy the car and about 10,000 of them spread out in the car. . These ants are fairly large and bright lime green. They don't bite particularly hard but they hang on and run all over you at inopportune times. The can grip the outside of the car at speeds up to 110Km/hr and when you stop come running out again. It took many hours to finally get the last ones from the cockpit but we found more in the boot the next day. Life in the North.

[timtiger]

Trying a pic

[timtiger]

In the cane fields (or rum in the sun as I like to think of it).

[Richard B]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have the wrong front bumper for the bonnet and front valance.

You should have a GT6 MkI (Spitfire MkI - II) front bumper which sits lower and mounts through the holes in the valance.  The current setup (GT6 MkII & Spitfire MKIII) obscures the front indicators.

Looks very nice condition, what engine is in there, 2litre or 2.5?

[timtiger]

I know it is a bit of a bitsa. It is really a 63 Mk 1 spit with a GT6 bonnet. I am ashamed to say I spent so little time with the car that I don't really know what motor is in it apart from verbal advice that may or may not be 100%. It has matching numbers (I think) and according to the previous owner so it has a standard motor that is blueprinted and has bigger SU carbs. I guy who new the oner before the previous owner thinks it has a worked on 1300cc.

In any case, it has a 4 cylinder and the 6 cylinder bonnet was fitted for looks. The motor is sweet and strong and holds 80MPH with no problem with 2 people and luggage. The OD works well but the gearchange is a little sloppy and the reverse lockout does not lock out. Overall is seems in good condition with no rust and very functional brakes and clutch. A dog has chewed the dash to and the control knobs on the passengers side but I figure that is "patina".
That is the story but who really knows. I need to get it home and give it a good going over.

[TR7th Heaven]

It's a pretty car.
Well worth spending some time on.
Good luck,
Rich  ;)

[Nick Jones]

Nice looking car! A well sorted 1300 is a fine engine.

Nick

[junkuser]

Wondering how things worked out.

[timtiger]

Hi from Rainy Manila,
The mechanic in brisbane got the broken axle to an engineer and he said the problem is that the axle had been "spray welded". My understanding is that the axle must have been worn in the area where the wheel bearing runs and it was  repaired by lathing off some metal, spray welding it back on and then turning it down to the correct spec. It seems that this is not a good method and the metal not as hard. The turned down area is where the axle sheared.

Anyway after measuring the respective parts it was determined that a Dolomite axle would not work and a used but good condition spitfire axle was cut. The SAH axle was cut and welded onto the SAH web that bolts to the rotoflex coupling. The engineer is very happy with the results but time will tell.

The axle should now be in Bundaberg and being fittedc to the car as we speak. I will be back in Australia in about a week and plan to fly to Bundaberg and start the big drive back to melbourne. If I don't have time I may just drive the 4 hours to brisbane and truck it the rest of the way.

I will let you know how it goes and try to post some pics of the repaired axle.

[Richard B]

706 wrote:

and it was  repaired by lathing off some metal, spray welding it back on and then turning it down to the correct spec. It seems that this is not a good method and the metal not as hard. The turned down area is where the axle sheared.

Sounds like 'Hot metal spattering' a process I'd heard of for reclaiming worn cranks where replacement is not viable. However I can see that it may not last when needle rollers are emplyed especially when the side loads of the Tite-a-Turn are experienced.

[junkuser]

Thank you for responding Tim.

Sounds like a good approach.

Hope your experience serves as a warning to others who may contemplate getting axles built up using metal spraying techniques on Spitfires or Heralds or any weight bearing axle.
It can be useful for repairing a surface for a plain bearing to run on or a race to fit but not where a shaft is taking considerable side loads (especially shock loads) plus torsional loads for its original diameter.

There may be specialised welding techniques plus stress relief and retoughening that could be satisfactory in skilled hands but I can't imagine it would be economical.  
I still would have reservations and hope the operator wasn't having a bad day.

[timtiger]

I agree entirely.
I still harbour plans to ditch the rotoflex and axles and use Subaru based lobo jointed exles. I am not sure of the final configuration of the suspension joints but the outcome I seek is reliability. I also do not really want to go back to the early tuck under suspension system. I will be working on this when I get the car back home and I will post updates and hopefully photos.

[Greeks]

706 wrote:

Subaru based lobo jointed exles .

Are you sure you're not really a kiwi  ;D

Good luck with getting things back to Melbourne - are you joining any of the Vic Triumph clubs?

The Forester looks like fun - I got stopped in an XT on the way to Bundaberg once.

If you're driving back to Brissy, beware of any roads around Maryborough - absolutely notorious for traffic cops  ;)

[timtiger]

Nice pick up. Not a Kiwi eh  Bro, just can't type!
The Scooby is my wife's car. She is soooooo not a rev head. hardy ever gets the hair dryer spinning. I on the other hand ........

I am not really a fast driver but i grew up in Queensland and have ridden motorbikes all my life (at least since I was 4) so I know the Queensland police habits very well. I guess they would say that I am "known to them" also.

[Greeks]

706 wrote:

I am not really a fast driver .

But you said the Spitfire does 80 no problem ... that's enough to set the Courier Mail alight with stories of outrageous hoonery!  ;D

You should be ashamed  ;)