suspension - upgrade or renew ?

[Fizzy]

i need to replace the rear shocks for the MOT of my car as the rubber mounts have perished. the shocks look ancient, as do the shocks and springs on the front. i want to replace it all, but money is a big factor.

im only using the car about town and occasionally on the odd car rally or similar. im pretty sure the price of koni/avo/spax etc shocks will outweigh the benefit i'll get from them considering how i use the car, so im hoping to just get new standard shocks.

as for front springs, can you get slightly lower springs without changing anything else ? or will i be best off just getting a new set of standard replacments ? its a mk3 spit, any insider tips on springs for different cars that work better ?

the whle polybushes thing has me completely confused.

brought singuarly, poly seems to be about 3 times more expensive than rubber. again, considering my car use, is it worth the extra ?

ive seen sets of polybushes, but have no idea whats in them or how many there are or where they go. will i use a whole set just replacing what i've stated?

apologies for my uselessness and info leaching :o

[ferny]

You've got polybush and superflex. Some say superflex are better but I've only used polybush so can't comment. With polybush you want to choose between blue (said to be similar to standard rubber bushes) and red (said to be firmer). The idea is that once you fit them it'll be a long time until you have to do them again. Modern rubber ones last all of five minutes.

You can go lower. Most places sell "uprated" springs but never say what they actually are. Search the forum in the herald and spitfire sections and you'll see loads of people talking about them. I have 500lb springs on the front of the Herald which make it just over an inch lower and an inch spacer at the back. The sills bottom out on harsh speedbumps if I go over them at more than 3mph. I consider the ride comfortable even if it is rather firm. The car has been described as "the boob wobbler". I'll be fitting a harder rear spring when funds allow. I got my springs from demon tweaks. Not cheap (especially factoring postage) but it's the only place I could buy what I wanted. They were also the hardest I could get in that size without having them specially made.

Standard shocks are fine. I still use them but would probably benifit from better ones.

If you're going to carry on using the car the way you have been, are happy with it and want to keep it for a while I'd replace it with the standard parts but fit blue polybush car kit or the superflex equivalent. If you're going to thrash the car and plan to surprise BMW's etc. as they disappear in your rear-view mirror but also willing to keep an eye on things to make sure it's in good working order then start to thinks about tinkering.

What do you mean by "rubber mounts" on the shocks? The rubber bushes which are easily replaced? Part #27;
http://www.canleyclassics.com/catalogue.asp?id=vitesse1600_rearsuspension&scale=large

[Fizzy]

hmmm i might have to forget about lowering the car, the rear silencers are already bottoming out every now and then on particuarly bumpy country roads. something to consider though. at least with a rough measurement of how much yours has lowered i can go check clearences on mine. got a feeling i might be stuck with standard ones though. saying that, driving a spit is hardly like cruising about in a land rover. its pretty low as it is. ;D

i'll probably get standard shocks, they sound more than capable for what i need. you are correct about the rubber thats perished on the shocks. if they wern't so cheap i'd just replace the rubber, but i might aswell get new shocks all round. mine look mega crusty. just one of those things where it'd be nice to get new shocks and springs all round all at once, even though its not necessary.

im still a bit gutted at how much poly kits cost. the kits in the canleys link you posted, would they all get used replacing just the 4 shocks and front springs ? perhaps i could just get what im replacing now, and get the rest of the poly ones at a later date when the rest of the car falls apart.

cheers, much appreciated

[CharlieB]

Your shocks may look ancient but do they still work? If so keep them untill you can afford some Konis (cheaper from SC Parts or Rimmers sale). Some new standard shocks are of dubious quality.
Moss do lowered 330lb springs which are a good compromise & should work ok with standard shocks.
What rear spring do you have?

[Richard B]

CharlieB wrote:

Some new standard shocks are of dubious quality.

He speaks the truth.  :)


Save up for Spax or Koni's

[Clive]

Def koni, otherwise old shocks are probably better than the new "std" variety. If needed new rubbers should be pennies for the shocks.
I reckon do the job properly once you want to explore the cars potential, otherwise leave well alone for the time being. Suspension upgrades are pretty simple if you stick to the "norm"

[Fizzy]

how do you know if the shocks are knackered, apart from if they snap in half ? they dont bottom out, they sit the car level, other than that i dont know what to look for. bare with me, im still new to this, learning everything as i take bits off the car. didn't even know what the clutch plate looked like till i had the remains of mine in my hands yesterday 8).

thanks for the heads up about the dubious new shocks. is there any info or way to well which ones are crap, or are they all really that bad ? the 330lb springs, do they just stiffen the ride but not to the extent of the 500lb ones ferny has, or do they alter the cars height aswell ?

like i said, this is my first car, and im diving straight in. most of the parts im seeing ive never even laid eyes on, with the extent of my mechanical knowledge being a pushbike and a fizzy that doesnt work. ??)

[CharlieB]

Quick way to check the shocks is to push down on one corner of the car, it should bounce back up & stop. If it bounces up & down a few times the shocks are knackered. Also check for oil leaks.
If you're taking them off the car compress them by hand against a bench, there should be considerable resistance & they should slowly extend back out, make sure the two shocks respond the same.

The Moss springs lower the car slightly.

[Clive]

The MoT test is to push down on each corner of the car and release. It should just return to position and not bounce up and down. Off he car the shocks should have resistance as you open and close them, difficult to explain further, but a knackered one will move fairly easily.
Its the black shocks that are poor, think they are badged armstrong?? which used to be OK years ago (NOS blue ones tend to be good) otherwise Koni are great and adjustable.
The taller of the 330lb moss springs will lower the car a bit, the short ones a lot (ie too much probably) I have the 480lb ones, excellent but may be a bit too low. Most new std springs end up being a bit too long on a early car, there used to be different ratings for each model, but now it seems most supply the 1500 one. Not good really. Your springs may look better with an hours cleaning up and a lick of paint, again save for a full upgrade later ;)

[Fizzy]

cheers. will give the corners of the car a push tomorrow. those moss springs sound quite handy aswell. to be honest, how they look isn't too important to me. i dont know how old they are, and i've got it in my head that some new ones might tighten the car up a bit. basically im not thinking of changing them because they look grotty but because im guessing they're pretty old and new ones would just be tought and fresh.possibly.

charlie B - as for which rear spring i have ?? erm.... an early spitfire one  :-/

well you guys have already saved me from buying crap, buying the wrong springs and possibly buying stuff i dont need. good times. ;D

[ferny]

So the springs and shocks are ok, it's only the bushes. Leave them as they are then otherwise it's all gets a bit expensive which I'm sure others will agree and have similar stories to the following.

I only replaced my springs after others told me mine were soft - likely as they could have been 40 years old. I always wanted to try and cure the wonkeyness my car has. So I looked around and made my choice of springs. They sat the car a bit lower than expected! Which meant buying spring spacers or lowering the back. So I bought the spacers and then thought a bit more and decided to lower the back. After the RBRR I realised my rear flexible hoses were rubbing on the halfshafts so I had to buy new ones of those. It being a lot lower than normal (loads of weight in the boot so the back was two inches lower than normal on the RBRR...) may have helped knacker the back end of my car so I had to spend a fair wedge to get that repaired ( one halfshaft, two bearings, one bearing housing, both UJ's). To make it all match I need a harder rear spring and new and expensive dampers.

If you change one thing then there is always something which needs money afterwards too!

Have a look at your bushes. Are they actually in need of replacement? They'll probably be cracked but still be good if you removed them - unless it all wobbles about. I'd expect the fronts would need placing too if they're bad. Unless a previous owner replaced the fronts only...

[CharlieB]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

charlie B - as for which rear spring i have ?? erm.... an early spitfire one  :-/

Just checking you hadn't fitted a later swing spring (which is a popular mod)

[Richard B]

Unless the shocks are leaking, I would change the bushes first as these deteriorate more rapidly than the shocks & springs.

How long ago were the last changed? The rubber ones are normally only good for 5 years (yes I know people still have them after 20 years  ??) )

Personnaly I would go for polyurathane (Superflex is my preferrence).

After the bushes do shocks and front springs, if the ones you fit are too low you can get spacers to adjust the ride height.

If you want to lower the back Canleys do an aluminium spacer do do that!

Take some beer tokens to Stoneleigh you may be surprised what you find (apart from a large number of Forum members).

[Richard B]

ferny wrote:

....I'm sure others will agree and have similar stories to the following.

They sat the car a bit lower than expected! Which meant buying spring spacers or lowering the back. So I bought the spacers and then thought a bit more and decided to lower the back. After the RBRR I realised my rear flexible hoses were rubbing on the halfshafts so I had to buy new ones of those. To make it all match I need a harder rear spring and new and expensive dampers.

If you change one thing then there is always something which needs money afterwards too!

So you bought a 2000  :P

[ferny]

Which I've lowered...

[Fizzy]

i think my main problem is that i've got nothing to compare the suspension on my car to. as with ferny, for all i know my suspension could be 42 years old. i didnt get much history with the car unfortunately. my springs could be extremely soft, but as far as i know my suspension is how it should be.

thanks for all the info guys

[Tim Bancroft]

I still have Triumphtune shore 70 rubber bushes on my GT6-wishbone bushes, these were fitted in 1984, still fine.

However with the quality of product nowadays, I would replace with superflex or similar.

Before doing any major work to the suspension, do think about the type of use the car will endure. If regular driving don't get too radical!

Good luck.