Rod 2500S Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hi GentsSomeone has "Upgraded" my S to yellow urethane bushes and yellow rear springs, I assume this was part of an upgrade kit. the car is now basically undriveable for touring purposes. Am I right in assuming the springs are stiffer? or was yellow the factory colour?Hopefully I only need to change the rock hard bushes for Rubber??? or is there a "soft urethane" alternative.Any thoughts please.cheersRod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hi RodI'm afraid colour isn't going to tell you much. Springs could've changed ride height and/or tension. Have you any side on photos you can post so we can see how much clearance there is on the rear? Previous owner may have put stiffer springs in to help with towing or erroneously assuming the old springs were past it when what can happen is the subframe where the diff mounts can oval out giving the impression of sagging.I'd be surprised if the bushes would have made a huge difference. Generally speaking changing the bushes would have been a good thing - should last forever, too.I had a play about with a load of springs a few years back http://www.greeksinoz.blogspot.com.au/2006/08/springtime-for-bob.htmlIn the end I bought Chris Witor rear springs when I went to the UK, and a mate (Burnerboy on here) brought fronts with him when he visited a couple of years later. Cheaper option in Oz would be to get some made to spec. - the front 'S' springs are called sofa springs by many :)Oh, another thing to check for is the big 'bean can' mounts on the trailing arm / strap things under the rear seats - these deteriorate and can make a big difference to the ride and steering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I'm with Greeks - hard poly bushes are a good thing - too hard or too low a spring and mismatched shocks will ruin the ride. What is your problem exactly - poor ride? Too low?The only uprated spring kits I've seen in Aus are King Springs - no idea of their rates - chris witor is very clear with what his springs will do - if you have good bushes and subframe mounts maybe a set of standard spring will do the job nicely - soft but comfy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 thanks gentsUndrivable - every little bump finds its way to your bum, and it will loosen your fillings. road noise so bad you can't talk to the passenger.Ride height is fine. I suspect that the "bean cans" may need attention as you suggest, these are original 1978 rubber for sure.cheers all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Hello Rod, I don't think the sub frame bushes would give a rock hard ride, although if worn they do need changing just to locate the sub frame properly. I presume it is the rear that is riding hard so as you say the ride height is correct, all that's left are the dampers?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 8860 wrote:thanks gentsUndrivable - every little bump finds its way to your bum, and it will loosen your fillings. road noise so bad you can't talk to the passenger.Ride height is fine. I suspect that the "bean cans" may need attention as you suggest, these are original 1978 rubber for sure.cheers allThere are two ways to tell if they're past it.1. Scandinavian flick on gravel. If you find yourself facing the wrong way they're gone... basically the whole rear end keeps moving when you don't want it to. Like a slingshot effect.2. Safer method is to jack it up and inspect ... the bolt and bush separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 What tyre pressures are you running ?Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 32 PSI. The car is up in the air wheels off for rebuild hence all the questions. I may as well change everything that's worn in one go including the tyres. cheers all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 8860 wrote:32 PSI. That sounds very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Shocks with the wrong rebound setting give a terrible ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Could be the springs are too strong, I don't find polyurathane bushes make the ride harsher just more precise.You have'nt got ubber low profile tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Hi gentsin order,32 PSI is pretty much the norm here in OZ for sustained freeway speeds, the tyres are 185 70R 14 Dunlops maybe 10 years old and will be replaced. the bushes are old (perhaps even 20 years), yellow and hard as rock. shocks are not adjustable.springs were part of the my first post, the rears IMHO can't be original.What about so called "comfort urethane bushes" any comments please.cheersRod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Rock hard pivot bushes contribute very little to a hard ride - they just make the suspension action reliable. I would suggest working out your spring rate - there are very simple online calculators - you need free length - working coils, coil diameter and spring diameter.I'm sure you have this data but standard springs are around 280lb/in - Estate are about 430.I found my Dunlop 185/70 HR 14 had a terrible ride (bought about 11-12 years ago) - its always worth dropping a few psi to see if there is a dramatic difference. My friend has a "standard" Mk1 2000 that has had different rear springs and shocks and there is an obvious mismatch - the shocks arent adjustable but if you do the bump test the car rises slowly - not rebounding once at the same rate as it went down - rides very jiggly as a consequence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Hello Rod, "Undrivable - every little bump finds its way to your bum, and it will loosen your fillings. road noise so bad you can't talk to the passenger."Ride is subjective but that sounds to me as though you have no suspension travel? You didn't say if it is only the rear or front or both? If the front has been lowered it could well be riding on the bump stops, which won't help? Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hi GentsThe ride height appears to be adequate front and rear, certainly not sitting on the bump stops. Andy I reckon your spot on with the tyres, they will be replaced. The shocks are doing their job, however I don't know if they are standard or what was once described as "sports gas" AKA too bloody stiff. I may just replace all the suspension mounting bushes (bean cans etc) and see if this helps.cheers all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cammmy Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Are your rear struts metallic gold and do they have "AUS" stamped into them? Mine were too. I've got a pic of them but it seems I haven't uploaded them to photobucket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Gday CammmyNo they are original black with yellow springs and yellow urethane bushes on the shocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharliesStag Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 IMO the problem is down to a few things after driving a few Stags ans saloons.1) Your tyre pressure is far too high. Granted they are 'freeway' pressures but that does not change the fact that they are miles too high for the car. The saloons I do not know about by my heavier Stag is meant to have 26PSI and 29PSI front and rear respectively. With the 15" wheels with 205/60R15s I have 28 up front with 31 in the rear with no adverse effects on high speed driving or tyre wear.2) The dampers are wrong for the car. My Stag is on stock dampers and if I am honest the ride is a little on the firmer side but not horrific. A known MkI 2.5 PI on this forum has the same springs as mine but it has the KYB Gas-A-Justs. In comparison to my car and other stock saloons I have driven it is about the best handling and riding saloon I have ever driven. It asborbs terrible roads superbly in addition to handling very well. It is not rough by any stretch and that is on 15" wheels. Other saloons I have driven in stock form have either felt a little choppy or as wallowy as hell!My 2p on the matter :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks CharlieI won't know until I get it back on the road. The tyres are at least 8 years old and according to the tyre bible are well past it, they will be changed. FWIW they are of NZ origin, which is probably irrelevant.I don't think it's the tyre pressures, but I can fiddle with these later.Front and rear dampers will be changed to adjustable. I'm now fettling the brakes and UNI joints (prop shaft), haven't got to the half shafts yet.CheersAllRod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh18 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hey. My 2.5 has a pretty harsh riding front end, as I just have cut standard springs in the front. It is too harsh, but was way worse when I was running 32psi in the front. I dropped the pressure down to about 27psi or so and it has made a marked difference. I still want to try something like CW progressive springs, but it sure has made a difference. For zero dollars, it would be the first thing I would try. Just out of interest, my rear springs are (I think)aftermarket, as they are red, and they are also cut but the rear has a very nice but still firm ride. I think it is because these springs have a much tighter wound coil, so cutting them has less effect on the overall spring rat increase.Also, your hard pivot bushes could be dry and need some grease, possibly making them overly stiff. Do they squeak?CheersJosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hi JoshDidn't your granddad tell you not to cut springs down?I can't hear any squeaks over the terrible road noise.CheersRod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh18 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hehe, probably, but I don't tend to listen. Id rather have a firm ride compared to the riding on stilts stock look any day! When I first lowered mine it was basically resting on the front bump stops, so the ride was super terrible. Now I have cut the ends of the cross member with the bump stops off to get more travel, and have bump stops on the struts in stead- it works a treat, still have plenty of suspension travel and am yet to bottom it out, Just need to try some softer springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod 2500S Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi JoshWhen i was your age I didn't listen either.FYI recommended tyre pressures for my Michelins on the daily driver are 36PSI and there not low profile.27 PSI equates to grossly under-inflated and will lead to elevated sidewall temperatures, uneven wear and reduced life (maybe yours if the tyre fails dramatically) FWIW matecheersRod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 8860 wrote:Hi JoshWhen i was your age I didn't listen either.FYI recommended tyre pressures for my Michelins on the daily driver are 36PSI and there not low profile.27 PSI equates to grossly under-inflated and will lead to elevated sidewall temperatures, uneven wear and reduced life (maybe yours if the tyre fails dramatically) FWIW matecheersRodBut what is your daily driver? I don't think you can suggest that just because one car has these pressures that so should a 2000.Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh18 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hey Rod, are those tyres the new faster rolling high fuel economy tyres by any chance? This seems pretty high for normal tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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