Faulty Oil Filter ? or What

[midgeman]

Hi all

I decided to change the Oil & Filter on the 13/60 Saturday morning but all did not go according to plan.

Usually takes 1/2 to 1 Hour tops but after draining and refilling Oil removing and replacing with new Filter (HAND TIGHT) I started the Engine and Oil literally poured out from around the filter (not a trickle) it poured out. Thinking I had not tightened enough I applied a little more effort to said Filter again by hand but this made no difference so I thought perhaps it was a poor rubber seal so swapped the seal from old filter to new and tried again but no luck and I ended up fitting the OLD Filter (not ideal I know) and it sealed first time.

So I am inclined to think that the NEW Classic Gold GFE 150 Filter was faulty in some way I believe that these Filter's have a one way valve inside so could it be that the valve was stuck causing the pressure to build up and forcing Oil out via the seal I have used these Filter's before and not had any problems.

Has anyone else experienced this problem.

Your views would be most welcome

[Nick Jones]

From your description it must be a fault with the new filter.  We have had a couple of the "Classic Gold" filters on our Spitfire and while the first seemed fine in all respects, the second had no anti-drain action whatever, so quality is definitely variable.

Could it have been coming from the crimped join where the base meets the body of the can?  This is an occasional failure point even on highly respected brands.

I'd return it to the supplier as faulty.  Unfortunately the oddball (today) 5/8" thread size makes choice a bit limited.  If you can find a supplier for 5/8" to 3/4" adaptors you'll be opening the door to a huge range of choices and doing yourself a huge favour.  They are readily available and cheap in the US, but not cheap to import and harder to find here.  Clive supplied ours - maybe he has one left?

Nick

[Clive]

Yep, I have one (or maybe 2 if memory serves me well)
Means you can have the choice of loads of filters from your local supplier, or indeed the excellent Mann filters with double anti-drain valves which do really work.

[mpbarrett]

I know someone who had a new (6 months) E class Merc.
Had a full service including oil and filter change. Starts to drive up M4 towards London, outside lane, filters splits, engine looses all the oil and seizes.
Stuck in fast lane and the police had to shut the M4 while his car was recovered!
MB accepted filter was faulty and had to replace engine...

mike

[midgeman]

Thanks for the replies I have sent a PM to Clive Senior

[Bitumen Boy]

I've had problems with a filter branded Classic Gold - in this instance, poor oil pressure once hot. Filter changed for NOS and no further problems. Classic Gold best avoided if possible IMO.

[midgeman]

I think your correct looks like they are not consistent in the quality department. I have ordered a thread adaptor from Clive so will in future have a better choice of Filters to choose from looks like Mann Filters are the preferred choice with some members unless you know of others.

I would be interested to know what vehicle these other Filters are listed for as none of the Motor Factors I know of list anything for our type of vehicle.

Many thanks for your reply.

Quoted from Bitumen Boy

I've had problems with a filter branded Classic Gold - in this instance, poor oil pressure once hot. Filter changed for NOS and no further problems. Classic Gold best avoided if possible IMO.

[yorkshire_spam]

I use a Mann W713/9 - which is Eurocar Parts P/N 501670049 I think it's originally a land rover filter. (Might be TD5 vehicles, but not 100% sure)

[herald948]

With that wonderful 5/8" - 3/4" adapter, I've used many different filters over the years here in the US, among them AC's PF-13, Fram's PH-16 or even Ford/Motorcraft's FL1-A. It was great when I had all my 140 series Volvos and/or my Saab 99, as nearly everything I drove took the same filter! I still stock up on the AC PF-13 whenever I can.

[Baxter]

Hi all,

Just attempted my first oil/filter change on my Vitesse 6 and have problems similar to midgeman's.

Firstly, it seemed very difficult to line up the new filter element between the spring/valve and the engine block. (I now see there is a part number 509883: Centraliser for filter, which didn't seem present when I removed the old filter.)  I tightened carefully, keeping the canister aligned with the groove and new rubber seal.  It was tight before the rim had even reached the groove, and as I reached the 15-18 lbft specified, the wear marks on the outside of the canister showed it was still a couple of mm shy of its previous location.  So I added a little more torque, put the new oil in, and cranked the engine over a couple of times.  The oil gushed out from around the canister.

Taking it apart, I compared my new Classic Gold GFE131 filter with the old one (I don't know the brand/type), fitted by a specialist 10 months and 1,000 miles ago.  Their filter was overall approx. 5mm shorter than my new one, and crushed a couple of mm more on one side.  The new one had just started to crush a little too. 

To investigate further, I put it in a press and made it the same length as the one I'd removed, rupturing the filter a little.  Now it fits snuggly and the canister tightened up with the right feel to the correct torque (though I don't know if the filter element remained centralised).  Engine idles with no leak.

So was GFE131 the wrong filter? Seemingly not: the cannister is stamped E730 requiring element AC73 which appears to be equivalent to the GFE131.  Did I have something out of line? Maybe: it's tight down there beneath the crankcase breather pipe, and I decided to remove the engine side panel for my second attempt.  But why was the filter I removed both damaged and so much smaller than the new one?

Would love to know what's gone wrong here and how best to proceed.  Need to get an effective filter in asap.  Maybe time for a spin-on adapter?

Cheers, Baxter

 

[RobPearce]

That does sound odd. The GT6 filter housing is different in a way that could explain that but it wouldn't be stamped as needing AC73. Is there any sign of damage to the housing? Or some foreign object inside it?

If it's any help, I'm pretty sure I have at least one Vitesse oil filter housing spare (mine has a spin-on conversion, as did my old 2500S)

[Baxter]

Rob, thanks for speedy response and kind offer. No, no sign of damage to the oil filter housing or foreign object within. 

I'm thinking spin-on conversion might be a timely way to overcome this problem

 

[Baxter]

...thinking about possible damage, I guess someone could have shortened the housing in the past to accept a smaller filter element, and it wouldn't be apparent if done neatly. But why??

Also thinking my oil has not been filtered for last 1,000 miles, and maybe much longer. Was already concerned by the quantity of iron filings on the sump plug.  I wonder what is normal?  Will try to post a photo...

 

[Baxter]

Here's the sump plug after 10 months and 1,000 miles.  Assume they cleaned it on previous oil change.  Engine rebuilt 5 years and 5,000 miles ago

 

[RobPearce]

I've not run with magnetic sump plugs long enough to know what's normal but that looks like very fine powder being made into a work of art by the magnetic field, rather than actual flakes of anything. If so, it may be relatively normal.

If you can measure the depth of your filter housing (from the block to the edge of the dome and to the bolt head) then I'll dig out one of my spares and check the same dimensions on that for comparison.

[RobPearce]

So the filter housing should look like this:

Three inches deep at full width. I don't have any Vitesse filter elements to hand (only a couple of the much thinner GFE138 type for a GT6) so no measurements of them.

[Baxter]

Thanks. Car is offsite so I'll hope for less rain tomorrow and pop over to the workshop to measure mine

 

[chris2]

is the new filter to long faulty make to long 

[Baxter]

Here's my filter housing. Obviously it is in situ so a short length extends beyond the start of the steel rule into the groove on the block.  But only approx. 2 5/8" showing at full width, so let's say 2 3/4" overall compared to 3" on Rob's.

[Baxter]

I'm struggling to believe my filter housing is wrong, but here's a photo of the filter I removed. Fitted by professionals who work on these cars every day, so something serious must be up...

[Baxter]

It seems the breather pipe on these early 1600 engines prevents the fitting of the spin-on adapter and filter, so I'm in the market for a replacement original housing

[RobPearce]

Well, the one in my photo is surplus so PM me if you want to make an offer. Needs cleaning up on the outside but good where it matters.

[Baxter]

Thanks, PM sent

[Pete Lewis]

you can re route the 1600 breather to run over the spin on

and the groove the seal ring sits in is stepped its easy to think its fitted in ok and the filter body chops the new seal .. , get down eye level and look in the groove/recess 

not unusual for two rings to be inside

 

[Baxter]

Quick update on the outcome of this:

I bought an oil filter housing that had been removed from a Vitesse and it turned out to be identical to my original one...though the oil filter bolt, spring and valve that came with it were different.  It also came with a spare filter which was shorter than the two previous ones which had been crushed.  Fitting this time was no problem, and after a couple of weeks running there are no leaks to report.  Crazy, but I will now have to measure new filters to check their spec before fitting.

Thanks for all the help on this one. Pete, good to know there is a breather re-route option to accommodate spin on adapter, but for now I prefer to stick with the original.  I'm pretty sure I have only one filter seal in the groove in the block, but as you say, I had to remove engine side panel to get decent eye-level access.