Davemate Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 do i need a joiny bit or not male and femail pipe ends one is resesed one is not so it will join,but will it seal do i need to get a bit or not would this be okthanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryH Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 They look like male and female ends and one will compress into the other when you tighten up flattening both a fraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 So I just join the ends,I do not need a joining piece then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 thanks all new pipes now fitted as well as all new back shoes and stuff,just the front calipers and master cylinder to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms700 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 should there not be a washer in there ? not certain but i did this last week and had a washer in the kit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 :-/i have not put one in and after tighting the two pipes are locked together,as i cant bleed the brakes on my own i'll have to wait until friday when the wife comes home to help me bleed them to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cureton Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 It's not normal practice to join pipes like that, but if it works then I suppose that's all that matters. Normally you use a tapped joiner with two female ends screwing in to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drofgum Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Davemate,Although that is unusual when both parts are metal lines; that type of joint is very much like what is used where the metal line joins to the brake hose. There certainly should NOT be a washer in that joint. Steve's joint is more usual or the alternative of the pipes having the male thread and the union the female thread. Cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 The pipe I have had to join is the brake pipe that runs from the 4 way junction at the front down to the back 3 way at the back. On canleys diagram it shows the run has two pipes and are Joined.I did not get pipes from canleys(maybe I should have)I have fitted all the other pipe and the two I have used for that run of pipe match exactly the correct length.The longer of the two pipes has a male fitting on both ends,which is wrong when you look at canleys diagram,but if ifs ok to just join the two as I have done then it's all ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shenderson Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I don't think there is any technical reason not to joint the pipes directly, and I've done it plenty of times without problems. However I remember being told that it does not meet MoT standards and may be a reason to fail.The MoT manual gives "inadequately repaired or with unsuitable joint fittings" as a reason to fail - see http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_360.htmSteveH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I would most certainly NOT join the pipes directly but do what Steve says and use a joiner - which is what I would consider the correct engineering solution. The problem is that these require the use of identical flares at each end - two double flares as in the upper picture or two single flares as in the second one. The danger of joining the pipes directly is that they will deform (as they are intended to do) but the great danger - especially with copper pipe - is that they will deform so much that they would block the bore of the pipe restricting flow. Joining sections are designed so that this cannot happen.The problem would be greater with copper if joined directly because it is softer and over a period of time could also 'work' so that the joint eases and leaks. Personally I would never use copper anyway but always use the tougher/stronger cupro nickel pipe - harder to form the flares and bend but unlikely to get damaged if accidentally knocked.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The pipe is intended to conform against the union, to produce a seal. To do this, the pipe is inherently softer. If you connect two pipes directly, you have identical materials both trying to conform/deform. That becomes an uncontrolled process, chances are it will seal OK, but it just might not....To echo Ted's comments, copper really is too prone to work hardening in my experience. Many times I've removed copper pipes (fitted by previous owners) to find they crack easily as the unions are undone. No doubt they were fine when installed, but any vibration will cause fatigue. Cunifer is my material of choice for brake lines,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I did actually buy two sets of pipes at the timeI have just checked the other set and that also has two pipes that have male fittings on both endsOne to go from the 4 way(at the front) to the master cylinder and the other much longer one must be joined(just like the original fitting)to a shorter peice to reach the 3 way union at the back.So I'll have the same problem when I replace the pipes on my heraldMy other option would be to cut the pipe and fit a female end,which would give me two femail ends which I would then mean i could use the connecting peice.Or can you get a conector that joins two male fittings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbjroms Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Just wondering why the main front to rear brake pipe includes a join anyway?I am redoing the pipes on my 13/60 (body is off so access is easy) and thinking that a single length of pipe will be far less prone to leaking rather than one with a join in it.Is the joint there just to make fitting easier?Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cureton Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I expect it's easier to feed in and keep it straight in two pieces but otherwise it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Blighter Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I did my Spifire front to back in one piece and its a pig to work with - much easier if it was in 2 parts.As others have said copper to copper is not good - you must use a joiner - dosen't matter if M-M or F to F.Dont forget to clip pipe to chassis a the MOT testers seem to be getting tight on that - cable ties are acceptable suprisingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Blighter Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 shenderson wrote:The MoT manual gives "inadequately repaired or with unsuitable joint fittings" as a reason to fail - SteveHThat probably applied to the bit of fuel pipe and two hose clips that joined the 2 halves of the front to rear before I replaced it then!!gone through 3 MOTs like that and I had always assumed that was the fuel line - only realised when I tried to fit an extra fuel filter in the joint ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 had car failed by doing this - Mot man tore a strip off me and demanded a joiner !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 1279 wrote:had car failed by doing this - Mot man tore a strip off me and demanded a joiner !!............you mean your car is made of wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensH Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 3459 wrote:Just wondering why the main front to rear brake pipe includes a join anyway?I am redoing the pipes on my 13/60 (body is off so access is easy) and thinking that a single length of pipe will be far less prone to leaking rather than one with a join in it.Is the joint there just to make fitting easier?ChrisOriginally made of steel, much easier to fit in two :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 in the case of car - nope - primarily rust!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Only just read this properly .The two pipes should be joined by Pt number 121782 and two female unions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB_Harvey Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Joining brake pipes together without a joiner is definately a no no ... If I was testing that it would fail as per MOT rules . Even the big saloons had a joiner in the transmission tunnel to make fitting easier ( Mk2's anyway ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 DJB_Harvey wrote:Even the big saloons had a joiner in the transmission tunnel to make fitting easier ( Mk2's anyway )They do Dave, it also makes it much easier for retro fitting dual circuit brakes like I have on the pi. :)Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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