lack of grip, tyre questions

[Fizzy]

when its raining or wet, i am very wary of driving my car. a month or so ago in the damp, not raining, i pulled out of a junction and ended up fishtailing down the road for a bit :-/. i thought i had compensated enough for the damp, but apparently not. since then its made me concentrate a bit more in the rain, which i guess is a good thing, but it does take some enjoyment out of driving it. i am very soft on the beans pedal when pulling away in the wet, but wheelspinning for what seemed like an age today at a roundabout made me think about trying to sort it out.

just before i brought the car the PO put new budget 'falken' tyres all round. not great i know, but there were other things to sort out on the car, and i wasn't going to change the tyres till i needed to.

so to the point - will wider, better tyres make enough of a difference to make them worth purchasing considering my existing tyres are pretty much brand new? how wide can i go on standard mk3 spitfire rims ?

or is it just an inherent design flaw that i can't do much about ?

[Velocita Rosso]

The back end is quite lively and light, especially with an empty boot
Better tyres do not always help on `take off` however it does help to have better than cheapo`s.
We have Yoko`s on and the next may be Toyo`s, they are both sticky tyres and do help on grip and cornering

[thealligator]

Falken tyres are very hard if I remember right, so they are not very grippy at the best of times

Nothing to worry about Spitfires are very light on the backend. I regularly spine the wheels when I pull out of my estate in wet or the dry.

Round abouts can be great fun, but to much boot you can up in the middle of em!

Just play with it and enjoy.

[Tim Bancroft]

Decent tyres, none of that 'Budget' rubbish.

They do not last, they offer zero grip and who knows when they will fail. Life is important, buy decent rubber, better driving, better life in the tyres and economical in the long run.

Modern cars are not sold with rubbish tyres, why?

[GT6 John]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

...will wider, better tyres make enough of a difference to make them worth purchasing considering my existing tyres are pretty much brand new?

In short, yes!  It very much is down to how much you plan to use the car in the wet.  If it's a daily driver then it could be worth considering better tyres, yes.  If you only plan to use the car in the wet if you absolutely have to, then perhaps no.

You could consider keeping the Falkens as spare, or sell on Ebay.  If they're nearly new then they should still have good tread and at least you'll get something back for them to help fund decent tyres.

I've bored for Britain on how much changing the tyres to decent ones on my GT6 made such a huge change, so I'll keep it short.

Never skimp on brakes or tyres, buy the best you can afford.  I went for directional, wet weather tyres on my GT6, Uniroyal Rallye 680 175/70/13s on 4.5 inch rims until a month odd back when I went to 5.5 inch rims.  I haven't regretted buying decent tyres.  They made a genuine and very noticable change. They are brilliant.

I've driven on them for 3 1/2 years now, on the 2006 RBRR and about 13,000 miles since, and all last winter.  They still have excellent tread left.  Can't recommend them highly enough.

Keep one of your Falken tyres as a spare as they can go either side.

[Fizzy]

the spare wheel is always in the boot. i did suspect the lightness of the car and the stone age design would be the root of the problem, but i did suspect my tyres aswell. as for playing with it, i've only been driving 3 or 4 months, straight from the car i learnt in into my spit, i dont quite trust myself to 'play with it', certainly not on public roads. reading stories of the wheels tucking in on the early cars doesn't help my confidence in the car either. just how much do you have to push the car for that to be a factor ?

the car is my only car, so its used come rain or shine. thanks for the info guys, seems like something i need to get on the case with.

[Nick Jones]

Probably crap tyres but what pressures are you running - excessive pressures can cause very poor grip...... and as many modern, low profile tyres run pretty high pressures many think all tyres do.  You should probably have 24 - 26 psi max at the rear, but there may even be a book figure available if you are running standard size tyres.  Could always throw a sack of sand in the boot  :P

Nick

[Velocita Rosso]

My Yoko`s held Tim off on a few bends at Cadwell!!................but not on the straights!!

[Fizzy]

right so better tyres will be a definite improvement (theres a surprise ;D), how wide can i go with standard wheels and no mods to the car ?

[GT6 John]

On standard 4.5J wheels 175 is the maximum width tyre you should go for.  If you go for 175/70/13s the ratio stays the same to keep the speedo showing the same...ish!

It's a Triumph, the speedo is never acurate at the best of times! ;D

[CharlieB]

I would consider 175/70 too wide for 4.5Js but there are different opinions on the subject. A good quality standard size tyre will give the best improvement in the wet, wider tyres are more effective in the dry but I would fit 5 or 5.5" wheels.

[Fizzy]

how big do mk3 style wheels go ? was trying to avoid buying new wheels, especially if enough difference is made just with new tyres. i really like the look of the steelies on my car, would rather just fit the biggest tyres possible than change the style of wheel.

[GT6 John]

If you have standard wheels they'll be 4.5J.

And indeed, opinions differ on max. tyre width on 4.5J.

I'll just say a 13,000 mile road test on 175/70/13 tyres on 4.5J wheels in all weathers, on fast roads, slow roads, icy roads, very wet roads, damp roads, twisting roads, straight roads, country roads, whilst travelling vast distances in one go, short distances, medium distances etc. shows they are absolutely fine, IMO. :)

Tyre manufacturers maximum recommended width on 4.5J is 175.

If however you plan to rag the nuts off your car round a track, then yes, 175/70/13s on 4.5Js are possibly too much due to the forces put through the tyres in such circumstances.

[Fizzy]

nah it'll all be road use, 90% round town and country lanes. just had a look at my tyres they say 145/80R13  75T.

does that mean its 145/80/13 ?

[thealligator]

does that mean its 145/80/13 yes

little squitty tyres. 145 is the width, 80 is the profile (height), 13 is the diameter.

Drop in at the Minty Lamb sight the is chart on there compairing tyre size and widths

[Deleted User]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

does that mean its 145/80/13 ?

Yes, and the 75 means that the tyre can support a load of 387Kg (per tyre) and the T means that it is good for upto 118mph.

Assuming your car has 4.5J rims, then the "correct" tyre is a 155/80/13, with a minimum of a S speed rating and a minumum of a 60 load rating.

For a better explanation, see http://www.pneus-online.co.uk/reading-tyre-markings-advice.html

[GT6 John]

145/80/13s?!!  Blimey, no wonder you wheel spin! (eek) LOL

[thescrapman]

John_Martin wrote:

If you have standard wheels they'll be 4.5J.

If he has standard wheels they will be 3.5J.

It is a Mk3.

Cheers

Colin

[GT6 John]

I sit corrected! :B

[CharlieB]

thescrapman wrote:

If he has standard wheels they will be 3.5J.
It is a Mk3.

Didn't late Mk3s have 4.5J?
Fizzy, the size may be stamped on the wheel, remove the hub cap & have a look.

[Fizzy]

while checking up on this stuff, i did read that mk3's up to FD 75000 i think had 3.5j like the mk1 and 2, mk3's after that had 4.5j. i've got a mk3 from the first year of production, so assuming the wheels are original, i guess it'll be 3.5j. can't really check now, bit early for that, i'll have a look when i get home from work.

at least i know my tyres are good for 118 MPH ;D

if i am running on 3.5j, i guess that makes a lot of the the tyre size ideas suggested redundant. how wide can you go on 3.5j ? or am i stuck with bike tyres ?

[Tim Bancroft]

Nowt wrong with narrow tyres in the rain.

Also do remember that Lotus specified 155 wide (Or cross ply alternative) tyres for the original Elan. No need for massively wide tyres.

I think a set of Michelin or similar will transform the car, I use 29psi on my GT6.

Good luck.

[Velocita Rosso]

Imagine plod stopping down a country lane, looking down at skid marks off 145 tyres and saying "Something must have dashed out in front of these two poor cyclists!"   ;D

[Raider]

Mk3 Spitfire on 3.5" wheels should be 145/80R13 - 22psi front, 28psi rear.  

Don't fit 175/70s on these wheels - they are too narrow, you would need 4 1/2" up to 6" wide, optimum would be 5".

Regarding performance in the wet - the narrower tyres, all else remaining equal will be just as good, if not better than wider  175/70s.

I would echo the comments about buying the best quality tyres you can, especially Tim's recommendation but then as I work for Michelin you may well think I am biased!

If you have a general handling problem attention to the suspension would be a good idea as well, either making sure it works how Triumph intended or changing it for a swing spring conversion.  Early Vitesse's have a reputation for being a bit evil in the wet and when cornering but when I had mine it was fine with the original Triumph suspension rebuilt and 155/80R13 tyres.

[Fizzy]

right, so don't bother with wider tyres, just better ones. as for the suspension, i just replaced the rear shocks last week. only with standard jobbies, but its made a huge difference. very pleased with the results. for how i use the car, theres no way i could justify spax or konis. especially as that money could be spent on something more useful....like tyres.

i'll check to make sure the pressures are right. i'll get onto my mate at ATS see what he can sort me.

cheers

edit - looking on blackcircles, i've found a couple of contenders i'd be interested in. any feedback on the following :

145/80/13:
toyo 350's for 35 quid fitted, new valve, balanced

however if i go to a 145/70/13, i get the following, which seem better options. will the lower profile work on my wheel ?

toyo 330 for 38 fitted etc
michelin energy e3b for 37 fitted etc
yokohoma A drive 42 quid fitted etc.

ignoring the fact the descriptions of each tyre are probably written by blackcircles staff, the toyo 330 sounds perfect. obviously the cheaper the better, but all tyres above are within my budget. im sort of ignoring the yoko's on the basis nobodies mentioned them and the michelins seem favoured. the toyo 330's are apparently specially designed for improved wet weather performance on small to medium sized cars.

if i can fit the 70 profile to my wheels, its a straight contest between toyo and michelin i think. opinions ?