Engine seized - help

[gfiandy]

Hi, I cleaned up the fly wheel. The good news is the flywheel clutch surface is actually smooth to the touch. The clutch surface is badly grooved so will need replacing, I have found a source of Borg and beck clutches and they are only slightly more than the no name ones so I will order a whole kit. The thrust bearing is definitely worn as its noisy.

The bad news is there is some damage to the starting ring. Does anyone know how bad this is, see below this is the worst part of the starter ring. Is it usable baring in mind I only do about 3k a year or is it on its last legs.





Andy

[junkuser]

Not ideal but should behave for quite a while yet.
Have seen teeth ground back to half length and still working.
Hopefully the teeth on the Bendix are in reasonable condition.
Pity the stud pattern prevents the flywheel from being rotated 90 degrees to bring new teeth to bear.

[ferny]

Depends - do you feel like taking the gearbox out again soon if it starts to mess about? I'd swap it for a good one now whilst it's all in bits.

[Nick Jones]

I'd say that that IS a good one as they go.  You can still buy the ring-gear and they are quite reasonable.  Also straight forward to fit though you may need to wait until senior management goes out so you can use the oven.....

Nick

[thebrookster]

I would consider re-using that, however may I make a suggestion?

Get hold of a set of needle files and smooth all ridges off, Not much, but by cleaning those ridges off (and presumably have to do the same to the bendix on the starter) you'll increase the life. Otherwise what would happen is every so often those bits of metal will detach when starting the engine, and get caught in the teeth between the bendix and the flywheel, and increase the levels of wear. Also, small bits of metal will not do the clutch much good either!

Bugger of a job, be prepared to spend a couple of hours at it, but it will be of great benefit in the long run!

P.S - try not to change the profile of the teeth, you only want to remove the lips, use the good section as the guide initially, then gently smooth the edges were the teeth initially mesh.

Cheers,

Phil

[JohnD]

junkuser wrote:

Pity the stud pattern prevents the flywheel from being rotated 90 degrees to bring new teeth to bear.

But when the engine stops, flywheel and starter pinion are randomly orientated.
The next start will hit the ring anywhere.
I don't think there's any need to turn the flywheel on its mounts!
JOhn

[junkuser]

"But when the engine stops, flywheel and starter pinion are randomly orientated."
Not with a single plane crank John.
Look at any used flywheel from a normal 4 and you will see tooth damage is in two areas, 180 apart.

Possibly gfiandy could confirm that this is the case with his.

[gfiandy]

I do indeed see two regions of wear and a relatively un worn region. One is much worse the the other so I suspect the engine has a tendency to stop at the same point.

I suspect this wear was caused before the starter was changed as the bendix shows very little wear and the car started easily before the thrust and main bearings failed.

Regards,
Andy

[JohnD]

Ah! It's a four!
Thanks, junk!

JOhn

[Nick Jones]

Yep.  3 wear patches on a 6 pot......

Nick

[gfiandy]

Not much progress on the engine rebuild. I am still waiting on Cranley Classics to complete my short block seem I have been put to the back of a queue.

However this has given me time to repaint chassis rails.


See easier photo for previous green colour!

[WIMPUS]

Looking very nice now !
The green color was just wrong  :P

[gfiandy]

Finally recovered from winter cold enough to start work on rebuilding the engine. See photos below.

[gfiandy]

So what have I done:-

Removed bridge piece from old engine cleaned it, fitted it to new block with new wood inserts, the only time I have used a coping saw on an engine.

Removed oil seal from engine crank, reviewed the oil seal and decided the old seal was in good condition and probably better quality than the new one so stuck with it. Fitted oil seal and housing with new gasket and sealing compound.

Refitted cam and cam plate, fitted new cam sprockets and chain. I had to reuse the old woodruff key as the new one I purchased did not fit at all. Timed cam with reference to old cam sprockets checked it three times. I really hope I have got this right!

Refitted oil pump.

Refitted sump.

Refitted front palate with new gasket and sealing compound.

Refitted rear plate.

Cleaned out end of crank removed bush from old block and fitted to new block after a lot of cleaning with needle files. Put took much oil in then cleaned it out to avoid clutch contamination.

Fitted fly wheel and checked run out it is within speck at 0.06mm.

Fitted new clutch, and clutch plate.

Fitted new timing chain oil seal, the old one had gone really hard.

Fitted new timing chain tensioner, that is a real pain.

Fitted timing chain cover.

Fitted fan belt pulley.

Removed all the old studs from the old block and fitted them to the new one.

Fitted new oil pressure switch and the pressure relief valve.

[Tim Bancroft]

Not sure why you doubted yourself, all very nice.

Looks like you have a nice car.

Have you thought about the engine oil yet? Valvoline VR1 is extremely good and would be a choice.

This has been an interesting thread.

(As ever, Canleys have done well)

[gfiandy]

Hi Not thought about oil yet. Canleys advice was find the very cheapest 20\50 to run it in. I asked about running in oil and was told in no uncertain terms not to waste my money. After 500 miles he recommended changing to a better oil and. Checking the oil for contamination to ensure engine has bedded in OK.

There is still plenty of work to do before then.

Andy.

[gfiandy]

Latest update, engine is almost complete.

Head studs cleaned and fitted,

Head fitted with new Payen gasket

New water pump fitted and housing with thermostat reinstalled.

Rocker gear cleaned and refitted and all gaps set and checked 3 times, just as well as I missed one completely on the first pass. Gaps were very tight and needed to be backed off to almost the limit I guess due to the head skim.

[Phwoar]

Cleaner and prettier than the day it left the factory!

[gfiandy]

Just refitted the distributor having worked out the very strange end float calculation method. I measured the gap from the pedestal to the block with the distributor fully pushed home but not bolted down as it seemed I could squash it down further however I suspect this is not the plan. Then I calculated this distance plus the end float and fitted gaskets till the pedestal was the combination of the two clear from the block.

Once this was done I identified the compression stroke using the valves on cylinder 4 being on the turn and checking I had pressure in number 1 with my finger. Its quite hard to turn the engine with one hand even with no spark plugs.

After much faffing I got the cog in the location identified in the Manual for a 1300 with the oil pump engaged fitted the distributor and checked the location against the photo in the manual and my photo pre rebuild. It looks like its in the right place. I will ave to hope it fires up as with the electronic ignition fitted I can't think of any way to static time it. If it does not work I will refit the old points and try it that way.

I also  then fitted the park plugs and the oil filter. I started to fit the dynamo then realised I had not completed the cleaning and repainted of these parts. So I cleaned them up and put a coat of rustolium black on them they are now drying, which might take a while in this cold weather.

[yorkshire_spam]

Looking really good, I hope when I get to do my engine it looks half as good!

[gfiandy]

Hopefully the next time you see the engine it will be in the engine bay. All ancillaries and hoses now fitted, I treated it to a new hose set as the old ones were showing signs of cracking. The water pie that runs under the engine has been cleaned and repainted.

The dynamo mounts new paint has dried and the dynamo and fan are no mounted.

The advance and retard vacuume pipe is fitted.

New engine mounts also fitted to the engine bay.

I am now awaiting the engine hoist which I hope to borrow again from one of the Club members, I guess that will have to be next weekend now.

The box of bits now just has the starter motor some nuts and bolts for mountingthe engine and a few pipes left in it.

[gfiandy]

Well the engine is in, its not hooked up yet I decided that as my back was getting sore I should stop and hook up the ancillaries later.

[gfiandy]

The MK3 Spit she breaths fire again!

But it wasn't plain sailing. I fitted the starter motor,  radiator, and connected the sensors for heat temperature and oil pressure as well as the rev counter. i filled up with oil and put as much coolant in as it would take. The new fuel pumps I bought are all rubbish, see other thread. So I thought I would try with the old one which works but the valves don't seal well.

After cranking over with the coil un wired to build up oil pressure, the oil light went out after about 30 seconds cranking, just long enough that I was getting worried. I tried cranking it with the coil attached. Nothing! it cranked but no life at all. I checked the plugs they were completely dry.

I decided I would have to change to the new pump and decided I should grind the really rough pump arm smooth with a dremel (see photos below), easy to say but it took quite some time. I also created a spacer to reduce the pressure on the cam. I plumbed it in but could not get a seal with the old olives and pipes, so had to cut the ends off and replace the olives and nuts. This literally took hours and finally after much faffing it sealed. The new pump has a hand lever so I used this but it didn't seem to move much fuel.

Because of the lack of fuel moved by the pump I was suspicious so I checked at the float chambers, no fuel in them at all. I removed the fuel pipe up at the carbs and there was fuel pressure. Eventually I noticed the valve in the float chamber was stuck shut. I had stored the carbs upside down with no fuel in them presumably this made them stick. I freed them off and plumbed it back in. The manual pump now enabled me to pump quite a lot of petrol so I was fairly confident the float chambers had filled but to make sure both of them were working I popped the top of the float chambers again. Both were now full. I will have to watch to see that the float chambers don't flood and that the valves are ok, but the check showed the level to be about right so they seem to be OK.

I turned the engin, it caught and fired once almost imediately. The second time it came to life I didn't run it for long as the car is in a garage.

I started it a second time to ensure it really works and it started again easily. Then I left it, my back was at its limit and its below freezing out there, I had been working on it without a brake for 8 hours. I had turned off the fan heater as soon as I started messing with petrol, too much of a fire risk so the garage was really cold as well.

I am concerned that there is a air lock in the engine as I have not put nearly enough liquid in to fill it according to the manual. There would still have been fluid in the heater matrix but still it should have taken more than the 2 litres I put in. I will have to watch it when I warm it up fully tommorrow. I fitted a new water pump as the bearing was noisy on the old one I hope it's working OK and that all the water ways are clear.

Given how easily it started in freezing conditions I am fairly confident that the cam timing must be right. There is still quite a lot to do to run in the engine and put the bonnet back on etc. but I am pleased that it started after such a big rebuild.

The next job will be an engine full warm up run. Then hopefully put the last parts back on and take it for a run.

Photos to follow.

[gfiandy]

New water pipe fitted as it was suggested the old one could have started rusting through.




My old cam friendly fuel pump.



New style fuel pump, these push too hard on the cam and have already caused some scoring to the pump lobe.



New style pump with smoothed lever arm, hopefully this will reduce wear to the cam. I also created a 1.6mm spacer out of phenolic PCB material, any thicker and you can't get the nuts on the studs.



It runs!

[gfiandy]

Video on photo bucket of first start up. Hopefully you can see it. Sorry I forgot to hold phone in landscape.

http://vid1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb470/gfiandy/VID_20150117_201325778_zpsf9fzz9ou.mp4