IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 In my previous thread I mentioned that due to pronounced negative camber my inner tyre edges had worn away. I have just taken the spring off.... it has 11 leaves and is marked up F1898 last digit could be a 2. JWS 305945/3.I have just put the spring on that the previous owner said was the original one [ gave it me at time of purchase ]The numbered spring that I took off was more curved by about 1 1/2". Hole centres looked about 3/4" less.Now having done the swap I still have pronounced negative camber. Viewed by myself with no one in the vehicle. :(Previous owner had said a gt6 spring was fitted in an attempt to lower. My vitesse/gt6 haynes manual states 11 leaves vitesse ......... 8 leaves gt6.So any advise would be welcome. Does anyone know what vehicle the numbered/removed spring is for?Is the negative camber as described nomalish?If not......... what can I do to put things right?I noticed that the diff/spring were clamped using 4 studs and there was only 4 tapped holes in the diff casing. Does that suggest that the diff is from a later swing spring set up? Cheers guys. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 I've just looked on the Canleys site and the number 305945 seams to be the correct spring for the vitesse. So it would seem that I've just taken off the correct spring which looked in very good condition, and replaced it with what was probably also the correct spring but original and worn.Either way the prounounced negative camber is eating tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 To look for the obvious, has someone fitted longer driveshafts from a late MKIV / 1500 Spitfire, as fitting these will cause a lot of extra negative camber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Thanks for the reply, Being a relative newby and trying to get my head around how the swing axle works, I was just wondering the same thing.I've been lying under the vehicle, then sitting in the house drawing sketches and trying to work out what I would need to adjust to get just a small amount of negative camber.How could I tell if the wrong driveshafts are fitted. Can anyone give me some dimensions to check?Also if they are the wrong ones what would be the best way of rectifying things.......Change the driveshafts or the spring to suit the shafts, or some other tweek.Would there have been a good reason for someone to use non standard driveshafts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Only me................again.My diff is marked V2734.The fitted driveshaft length is 360mm from the back of the trunnion to the mating face of the uj flange.I'm sort of hoping that the driveshafts are the correct length, wishful thinking eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Don't know about part Nos. but John Thomason published in the Courier this table of specs for various springs. I hope the formatting survives.From, “Suspensions sussed” by John ThomasonThe Courier, No.158, August 1993, p31 (TSSC magazine) Plus some data from John’s “Guide to originality” Eye distanceModel No.blades Blade Spring RateFree Arc Thick- Lbs/in ht(mm) Free Fitted Ness(ins) GT6Mk 1 8 0.250 305 ? ? ?Mk2-3 6. 0.234 185 116 1022 1048Vit Mk.1 11 0.219 270 123 1012 1048Conv. 11 0.219 270 131 1017 ?Vit2 all 11 0.203 215 165 1012 1064SpitI,II,III 7 0.219 166 135 1035 1048Spit IV,1500 5 0.38 110 ? ? ? (bottom two 0,25) Herald Sal 11 0.219 270 136 1012 1048Conv. 11 0.219 270 ? ? ?Coupe 8 0.219 202 ? ? ?Estate 7 0.313 510 88 1036 1051CourierVan 8 0.313 552 ? ? ?Lowered,Or ‘cambered’ ? ? ? 95 1035 1048? = Not known. Can anyone add these?Regret, no spring height data for Spit Mk4/1500Free arc is height of spring centre above ground when stood upright, off car.Eye distance: “Free” is with spring in as above condition. “Fitted” is on car NB: Fitted height: For every 8mm increase, wheel camber goes 1 degree negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 just a quick check here. From the back are the tyres /------\ (negative) or \----/ (positive camber)If the car has been jacked up I would expect the car to have a lot of positive camber until it has been moved around a bit.Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 B*gg*r, it does mess up the formatting.Here's the table as a picture - click on it to see the table.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Cheers for replies guys.Defo negative camber Clive.Spring dimensions check out with the info. John.Looks like i've spent all morning achieving nothing. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Could some wonderful Vitesse owner check the driveshaft length for me please.[ non roto-flex ]The fitted driveshaft length is 360mm from the back of the trunnion to the mating face of the uj flange. Well it is on mine anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 187 wrote:The fitted driveshaft length is 360mm from the back of the trunnion to the mating face of the uj flange.The measurement you have made requires the UJ flange to be perfectly lined up in a straight line.A better measurement is the length of (constant diameter) shaft that is visible.From where the shaft enters the UJ yolk to back of the "cup" that keeps dirt out of the trunions should be 28.5cm. If it is 30cm, then you have long shafts from a late MKIV/1500 Spitfire.If the Diff only has 4 holes for spring studs then it is a diff for a swing spring car (Spit IV/1500 or late GT6MK3)There should be a Diff number (like an engine number) stamped (not cast) onto the flat face of one of the webs on the nosepiece of the diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Thanks Kevin, I've just been to check...................... It's 28.5 spot on.So that means its the right shafts.......... It's the right spring............ so what else could cause that much negative camber.The uj does measure approx 7.5 making the 360mm I mentioned earlier.The diff stamp must be on one of the upper faces because I sure cant see anything from underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Just a thought, are all of the diffs the same external measurements?The spring is stamped with the same number that canleys list for the vitesse non roto.It also dimensionally matches the charts supplied by John.The driveshafts are the same length as confirmed by Kevin.Can't be much else to check............ can there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Have you checked the toe-in?That could lead to excess shoulder wear.OR, a tired spring. The more the wheel rises (the car is lowered), the more negative it goes. Is there a spacer 'tween spring and diff?John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 I haven't checked the toe in as yet. I have taken on board the comments regarding toe in, in my previous thread. However, because I can see quite clearly that camber is way way negative I wanted to address that first.The spring that I took off this morning looked quite new, and as said earlier is ID stamped correctly and measures correctly.There is no spacer fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 one thing to add is that incorrect rear wheel toe will scrub out tyres rapidly I would not expect excess camber to wreck or shread tread that quicklyas Jon says is there a block fitted on top of the diff to lower the ride Ht. as this gives neg camber we had a moss crap spring that gave bottomed out shockers and 10neg and had no efefct on tyres for 10k miles that changed to a swinger with 3neg and no tyre wear for 8k miles , same tyres now running courier spring and 1" spacer 1pos same tyres no camber wear.get 2 bits of straight timber and a tape measure and check the rear toe Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Post some photos so we can assess whether it really is excessive camber or low ride height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj215/andyshirley/vitesse%20camber/?albumview=slideshow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Without a side view, it is difficult to asses ride height, but looking at the angle of the driveshaft to the chassis it looks like the spring is a bit tired, which will accentuate the negative camber.The amount of negative camber present should not have caused the tyre wear that is visible, I think it is probably due to toe out - unless it is an optical illusion, it is quite clear on picture 6.Looking at the gaps between the wheels and the wheel arches for both sides of the car would indicate that the car is not square on the chassis - unless the wheels are significantly out of alignment with respect to the chassis. How long are the radius arms, and how many shims are under each one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'll take some better pics tomorrow, dont want to go lying on the floor again now tonight. :)It is the tired spring that is on now.I took the newer, numbered one off this morning, to try this one. The newer one is what was on since I've had the car. It is about 1 1/2" more curved.Both springs give negative though, theres not much difference when they're fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Radius arms are 16" centres of holes. There are 3 shims behind each brk"t to chassis.They have a slight kink in them.Just added some more pics to the photo bucket album.When I get around to checking the toe in............ can i use a chalk line on the floor and then plumb up from that with a level or plumb bob.Bear with me guys, I've got a single garage that the car just fits in.Worth mentioning also that I have done alot of miles with 3 kids in car . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 From the side view, the car is sitting VERY low at the back, which would explain the negative camber.You will have very little suspension travel before hitting the bump stops.You have a VERY DANGEROUS situation developing where the offside brake hose is rubbing (and WEARING THROUGH) on the drive shaft. The problem is also visible on the nearside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVANHOE Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 What do you think of the fact that it was only slightly higher with the newish looking spring that i took off? [pictured ]Thanks for the heads up on the brake hoses Kev. I must admit I hadn't noticed. :B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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