Timbers Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hi all,I'm not a fan of rotoflex and considering converting it. Am I right in thinking its a simple matter of getting a new leaf spring, diff and rear hubs? Will it involve changing the radius arms or their position in terms of their mounting? If anyones done this I'd be interested to know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 seen ss changed to roto.....you will need the complete setup, radius armas and brackets (they fit a bit further out than the roto ones, holes there already, or at least the bumps to act as a guide) halfshafts etc and of course the thicker front ARB. All very doable, a spit 1500 would be a good donor, but will have the slightly smaller drums. Never a problem on my 2.5 vitesse.....Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggrr1 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Is there an advantage to this other than doing away with the rotoflex doughnuts?Is there any improvement in the handling?Just curious ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royboy66 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Ive done this !My mk1 had roto fitted by a previous owner,It was a bit worn everywhere, and once I'd had to drill out the 'siezed' long bolts that hold the wishbone to the hubs(horrible job), I was'nt gonna do that again! so I went to swing spring.I got a complete set up from a 1500 spit, you need rear spring, driveshaft assemblies, radius arms( brackets are a bit more outboard).Also the thicker arb.I didnt notice any difference in the braking with the smaller 1500 rear drums( the rear's dont do much anyway)I fitted a 1500 (3.63:1) I think you can keep the same diff, the swing spring uses 4 bolts ,instead of the roto's 6, so just put 2 grub screws in the spare holes .Im happy with it! it does give a softer ride compared to the rotoflex set up that was fitted!Also, if like me you do quite a few miles,its less complex to maintain.My car feels much more stable at high speeds now, but that may be because of the longer 1500 shafts, (or my roto set up was worn out!!)Also feels like I have more rear susp travel,and its not so 'crash bang wallop' over the rough roads!Downsides , some ppl prefer roto because if you break a shaft,you still got the wishbone etc to hold the wheel on !! ;)I would reccomend changing to s/spring,if your roto is worn out.Id guess folks with roto thats in good nick,would say keep it! The choice is yours :)got some before/after pics somewhere, will have a look around!Roy 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I've owned both a swing spring 1500 and a rotoflex GT6 and reckon that the GT6 has a much tighter rear end.Bodders who was my Co Driver on teh RBRR usually drives his swing spring Spit 1500 and remarked just how much better bwehaved my GT6 was at the back when being cornered hard.I'm a firm beliver that Rotoflex handling is superior, however I'm also a firm belivere that Rotoflex needs a lot more looking after and is more expensive to maintain, some of the parts are getting harder to find now as well. If you do a lot of miles then I can see the attraction of swing spring conversion, if you don't do a high mileage then stick with Rotoflex, thats my opinion for what it's worth..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 My old GT6 (now McJim's) was a late ss converted to roto. in restoration in the early '90s (which is what people were doing back then). Yes it was a pain having to rebush everything after it hadn't turned a wheel for 8 years, but I recall some spirited driving behind an ss setup GT6 with a 'capable' driver. Going through some hard driven corners my car felt considerably more composed than his looked. Of course well-maintained will always help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99176 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Firstly, why are you not a fan of rotoflex? What are you looking for?Simple set up, ease of maintenance, load carrying, cost or handling.Much easier to advise when we know what your gripe is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Keep the wish-bone setup and fit a CV drive-shaft. Best of both worlds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbers Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Thanks for all the comments guys.I've had a spit 1500 and found no problem with the swing spring in terms of handling. I also likes its simplicity.In contrast, I dont like the rubber donuts, so want to remove them from the equation. I dont like the feel of lag under acceleration though this may be due to the fact that mine needs overhauling. I will be doing a lot of miles and I want to remove and replace components that are more likely to fail.In terms of handling, a thicker ARB, poly bushs and shocks will undoubtably improve the handling with or without rotoflex. It would be a viable option to convert to cv joints but for the price of doing it. I'm guessing it would be a lot cheaper to get all the swing spring components.Having said all that, I have heard and read lots of good things about rotoflex in terms of its handling which is why I'm kind of undecided... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Roto rear end with CVs for me every time. We now have the technology to do away with most of the more irritating aspects of the roto rear with CV joints and modern bearing packs.Swing spring can be made to work ok but the huge camber and track changes mean well short of perfection in many ways and they also have issues with UJ failures, wheel bearing failures, trunnion siezure and even wheel loss due to shaft breakage.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I have been advised on here that you should NOT fit the thicker ARB unless you have a swing spring otherwise the car "will plough like a ferguson tractor"So Rotoflex with 11/16" ARBSwing spring with 7/8" ARBHow does the swing spring work by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I could be wrong BUT I think it is think it is down to the "hump" in the middle of the spring allowing it to act like a pivot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Freebird wrote:I have been advised on here that you should NOT fit the thicker ARB unless you have a swing spring otherwise the car "will plough like a ferguson tractor"So Rotoflex with 11/16" ARBSwing spring with 7/8" ARBI remember seeing all of that, but it wasn't my experience at all. Fitting a thicker ARB to the front of my roto setup made hard cornering far more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 cliftyhanger wrote:I could be wrong BUT I think it is think it is down to the "hump" in the middle of the spring allowing it to act like a pivot. Yes, the car at the back is allowed to roll relative to the wheels (within limits); hence the need for a stiffer front ARB.Someone in the Club I know has a TT 1'' ARB. But then he liked to turn his 1500 Spitfire into a go-cart. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbers Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Well, it looks like I'll be saving up for a sometime to get cv joints as I dont see santas elves being skilled enough to knock them up :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Freebird wrote: I have been advised on here that you should NOT fit the thicker ARB unless you have a swing spring otherwise the car "will plough like a ferguson tractor"....Greeks wrote: I remember seeing all of that, but it wasn't my experience at all. Fitting a thicker ARB to the front of my roto setup made hard cornering far more enjoyable. I think I may have been the source of the first quote. Actually, the thicker ARB might be just fine for most road work. My suggestion was based on experience in Solo II/autocross events. A friend and I had nearly identical GT6+ cars, although mine was totally stock save for Koni shocks, and his was also stock (incl. shocks) save for the thicker ARB. I had several opportunities to drive both cars back-to-back on the same course, and I found that his car's front end really wanted to go straight, while mine turned in better.As they say, Your Mileage May Vary.... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The Triumphtune performance manual recommends the fitting of a thicker front anti roll bar plus a rear anti roll bar on rotoflex cars "to reduce understeer".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 A CV joint conversion is the way to go if you really don't like the rotos - but they are not cheap and Mowerman fitted them to his Vitesse about 4 months before the RBRR and it took him nearly all that time to get them right. Not a 5 minute job. Those rear wheel berings are a pig to set up and changing the drive shafts means re-shimming from scratch.I'm not gonna bother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 cook1e wrote:The Triumphtune performance manual recommends the fitting of a thicker front anti roll bar plus a rear anti roll bar on rotoflex cars "to reduce understeer"....Oh dear :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbers Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Freebird wrote:A CV joint conversion is the way to go if you really don't like the rotos - but they are not cheap and Mowerman fitted them to his Vitesse about 4 months before the RBRR and it took him nearly all that time to get them right. Not a 5 minute job. Those rear wheel berings are a pig to set up and changing the drive shafts means re-shimming from scratch.I'm not gonna bother!HiDid Mowerman buy the cv joints from Canley Classics? And when you say re-shimming, what are you refering to? cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Shim the wheel bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 The wheel bearings on rotoflex cars are adjusted with shims. It's relatively easy to do if you are not disturbing the original settings, it can be a pain however if you are building from scratch with no prior reference. Always best to use the workshop manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_trinda Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Freebird wrote:A CV joint conversion is the way to go if you really don't like the rotos - but they are not cheap and Mowerman fitted them to his Vitesse about 4 months before the RBRR and it took him nearly all that time to get them right. Not a 5 minute job. Those rear wheel berings are a pig to set up and changing the drive shafts means re-shimming from scratch.I'm not gonna bother!Not cheap but worth it for me to get rid of those nasty bits of rubber. It took me about two months to fit mine but I rebuilt the back end at the same time and had lots of problems with new shiney bits that didn't fit. The CC CV driveshafts were fine and I reckon they could easily be fitted in a weekend subject to having the required tools i.e. spring lifter, drive shaft extractor and the whole lot not being rusted solid. Don't see why the bearings should need resetting when fitting new driveshafts - mine didn't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbers Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks guys, well that doesnt seem like too much work. I dont have a spring lifter but I dont see that being a massive problem but not having a driveshaft extactor will be. A visit to my local garage can get that remedied. While I'm at it I may as well rebush the back end too. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 The bearings would need re-shimming unless the stub shaft of the new driveshaft is exactly the same length as the one that came off the car. There is only a 2 thou tolerance on the bearing endfloat, so tim_trinda was very lucky.TimbersYou really should make, buy or borrow a spring lifter to do the job safely. The lifter is needed for most jobs on the rear end. There is a drawing in the Haynes manual to make one to or they can be bought for £35 or so. I borrowed one, but will invest next time.The hub can be pulled off with a three legged puller if not too tight, but again the proper tool is better all round. One of mine is a lot tighter than the other and I used a three legged puller as it was all I had to hand.Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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