Front Hub Oil Seal

[Ryan]

Does anyone know if you can get a more modern oil seal for the front hubs of a Spit1500? I have two from bearing kits but they are ones with the cotton like stuff in them. They don't fit either which is poor. Can't remember where I bought them...

So anyway, any new style ones? Do they share a part number with any other triumph?

[billspit]

I bought a pair from Dave Bean in the US.  They are made for racers and you may find them at a place that sells Lotus parts, because I think they use the same parts.    

[Pete Lewis]

post what you discover,

none of the aftermarket felt cups fit they are just tooooo big,  you can re use the old cup and fit the new felt . that lasts for years

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

post what you discover,

none of the aftermarket felt cups fit they are just tooooo big,  you can re use the old cup and fit the new felt . that lasts for years

Pete

[CharlieB]

I wonder if the Caterham seal fits better, I can't imagine the average owner would put with the c*%p we have to deal with?
https://www.caterhamparts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=144_145&products_id=2115&osCsid=6763d5d5780356c9d627656267587364

[Ryan]

My da took the hub and vertical link up to an engineering company for them to have a look while I was at work. They going to have one tomorrow that will fit after they take a wee bit off the inside I think. I'll ask what they are.

[Velocita Rosso]

Never had any problems with sizing on the ones from Fitchets. Fit every time

[Ryan]

No amount of tool #0001 was going to get these two in.

[Nick Moore]

Ryan wrote:

My da took the hub and vertical link up to an engineering company for them to have a look while I was at work. They going to have one tomorrow that will fit after they take a wee bit off the inside I think. I'll ask what they are.

Do you mean that the engineers are going to machine the hubs to take the poxy, poorly manufactured, substandard seals? That'll work this time, but if you ever want to fit the correct seals they'll be too small!

[Ryan]

Nick_Moore wrote:

Do you mean that the engineers are going to machine the hubs to take the poxy, poorly manufactured, substandard seals?

Yes, instead of the ones that do not fit.

[Fizzy]

i also had to ditcht he metal cup i got with a new set of wheel bearings and put the new felt back into my old cup. far too large to fit in.

is this the sort of thing a retailer would want to know ? i amost phoned up the place i got them to tell them, but wasnt sure if it was just my car being odd.

[Velocita Rosso]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

i also had to ditcht he metal cup i got with a new set of wheel bearings and put the new felt back into my old cup. far too large to fit in.

is this the sort of thing a retailer would want to know ? i amost phoned up the place i got them to tell them, but wasnt sure if it was just my car being odd.

If no one goes back to where they are purchased from and explains, then it will never get put right. Five years down the line when someone does complain, then the response would be "well wev`e never had any complaints before"
I bought some cylinder head nuts, from a reputable company that I will never stop buying from,and when I explained that they were soft and not high tensile, corrections were soon made.(albeit they said that they had not had complaints before)

[Fizzy]

i was in the same position. i always go to the same place first to get my bits, and these ill-fitting seals won't/haven't stopped me going back, but obviously i'll be looking somewhere else next time for this particular part.

[Slimboyfat]

michael_charlton wrote:

If no one goes back to where they are purchased from and explains, then it will never get put right. Five years down the line when someone does complain, then the response would be "well wev`e never had any complaints before"

The usual sequence of events these days when something isn't right is to jump on to a forum or message board and moan about it.

Then all of a sudden the world is full of experts eliciting their educated opinions on product XYZ.

As a trader myself I see this time and time again, and because I care about this trade (yes even the 'competition', we are all great mates really!) it sometimes makes me cringe seeing another being slated for something invariably out of their control.

What the 'experts' often conveniently forget is that 99% of stuff is coming from one source. You might buy it from Joe Bloggs Triumph Tackle but odds are he didn't make it in his shed. If you haven't told Joe that your Triumph furry dice fell apart 5 minutes after you hung them on your mirror he won't tell his supplier, who in turn won't tell the manufacturer.

Tis true that some manufacturers don't give a sh*te, but generally they get found out quick fashion when the trade jungle drums fire up.

[Nick Jones]

So what is the story on this one then Dave?  Has been a long standing issue and "even" (or should that be especially  :-/?) afflicts QH.  I did one on the Vitesse earlier this year with a QH bearing kit from my local motor factor and had to make do and mend with the old ring and some of the new felt.  Even our friends across the pond talk about this one.....

Nick

[Ryan]

Slimboyfat wrote:

The usual sequence of events these days when something isn't right is to jump on to a forum or message board and moan about it.

Heh, I certainly hope you aren't aiming that at me. Like you said, these traders probably get 99% of their stuff from the same manufactorer. So I'm not going to buy another one. Just to be safe. :)

[drofgum]

Nick_Jones wrote:

So what is the story on this one then Dave?  Has been a long standing issue and "even" (or should that be especially  :-/?) afflicts QH.  I did one on the Vitesse earlier this year with a QH bearing kit from my local motor factor and had to make do and mend with the old ring and some of the new felt.  Even our friends across the pond talk about this one.....

Nick

I can confirm that this problem is indeed seen on the west side of the Atlantic; and has been for years. It seems that the part was mis-specified long ago and a world wide supply good for decades got into the supply chain. I use the only practical solution anyone has suggested: save and reuse the old metal part of the seal.
                                                                             All the best,
                                                                             Paul

[Paudman]

Slimboyfat wrote:

Tis true that some manufacturers don't give a sh*te, but generally they get found out quick fashion when the trade jungle drums fire up.

Possibly, but the poor quality items still filter down to the poor bloody customer until someone raises the issue and a manufacturer decides to do something about it but usually only after he has fobbed off his poor stock to unsuspecting customers. Internet forum moaning is just the tip of the iceberg.
Having bought a number of these from various sources in the last few years and effectively wasted my money, I feel I'm entitled to moan, having been sold an item which is not fit for purpose, and when I ask about it I'm told that it's all that is available. I've bought a number of NOS items from eBay which at least fit but someday this stock will run out.
It may seem like internet forum moaning to some; to others it's a legitimate - and often only - way of raising concerns. That post has worried me. I'd rather have no product at all than a sub-standard item which doesn't fit, and believe me I'm far from being an expert.

[Nick Moore]

I'm also guilty of putting substandard parts to one side and looking elsewhere, mainly because returning a defective part to the UK from Australia usually costs more than the part is worth - it'd only be sent back on principle. A quick post to the forum to warn others is much cheaper, and I'm guilty of venting on here as well.

It's heartening to read that suppliers do take concerns seriously and try to fire up the manufacturers. I'm sure Dave P could tell a few stories...

[Ryan]

I couldn't be bothered paying for postage to England from Northern Ireland lol!

The new seals seem alright and there will only be a little bit that needs to be taken out.

[Slimboyfat]

490 wrote:

Possibly, but the poor quality items still filter down to the poor bloody customer until someone raises the issue and a manufacturer decides to do something about it but usually only after he has fobbed off his poor stock to unsuspecting customers.

Unfortunately there is a degree of truth in that.

Two examples, one of which made me laugh when it happened. A couple of years ago we identified a problem with a batch of petrol tank sender units. All the ones supplied to us were faulty (as I suspect was the whole production run) so we duly informed the supplier, bagged them up and sent them back. Having been given no firm assurances from the supplier that the issue had been resolved we assumed that it would be a long standing problem and listed the sender NCA on our system. Some time later whilst chewing the fat with another trade wholesaler he offered me this part number assuring me they were from their own source. Great thinks I and I ordered all his stock. Fortunately when they turned up here the wife happened to be doing goods inwards, because it had been her that had sent the faulty ones back to the first supplier. She recognised them as the first (faulty) units she had sent back to the other wholesaler from her handwritten part numbers on the bags!

The other example is one of which I'm sure a lot of you have experience of and I eluded to in my 'Pearsons Problem Parts' thing on our website some years ago. One of the anti roll bar links had been assembled incorrectly in manufacture. When fitted to a car it was contorted to the point where the rubber bushes were under so much strain that they soon gave up the ghost. This issue was identified very quickly but unfortunately for us they had been dumped into the trade in vast numbers and it took me a good few months to find any that were acceptable. I suspect there are still duff ones sitting on traders shelves to this day.

We have in the past tried to give a 'heads up' to any issues that we find with stuff in the market with PPP mentioned above. However I got disillusioned with it after receiving zero feedback in the couple of years I tried to operate it. This was highlighted by the fact that I know stuff like those thousands of dodgy roll bar links all got sold somewhere.    

[Slimboyfat]

Nick_Moore wrote:

I'm sure Dave P could tell a few stories...

Maybe when I retire! Otherwise I value my health, say no more.............

[Slimboyfat]

1317 wrote:

I can confirm that this problem is indeed seen on the west side of the Atlantic; and has been for years. It seems that the part was mis-specified long ago and a world wide supply good for decades got into the supply chain. I use the only practical solution anyone has suggested: save and reuse the old metal part of the seal.
                                                                             All the best,
                                                                             Paul

I wish it were as simple as that. This part (and a few others) in particular is the exception to the 99% of all parts come from one source rule. I have seen as many different versions of this as I have had hot dinners.

One version had a steel ring that was a smaller diameter to that of the hub where it was supposed to fit. One suppliers solution was to have a bloke 'dink' them with his hammer turning them into an egg shape so that it at least gripped in two places in the hub, I kid you not.

Others had felt bits 1/2" thick (slight exaggeration!) that would have caused so much drag on the hub/link if fitted it would have surely slowed the car down.

Most issues however have revolved around the steel ring being to large a diameter and being nigh on impossible to fit in the hub.

The other problem for the trade is wheel bearing kits, the felt seal in those is sometimes chucked in by the manufacturer almost as an afterthought, and it's supply changes with the wind it seems. It's almost as if every box would need to be opened to check, and there simply isn't enough hours in the day
If it helps the ones we have individually on the shelf at the moment (GHS146) are a perfect fit (I have just tried one in a hub).

[Paudman]

Slimboyfat wrote:

If it helps the ones we have individually on the shelf at the moment (GHS146) are a perfect fit (I have just tried one in a hub).

It helps! Another two restorations coming up, and I've just found that one has no oil seals at all.
One other problem I've found is where the felt seal had come off, owners have tried to press the new seal in WITHOUT removing the old metal ring first, believing that this is part of the hub. Believe me, that's definitely impossible.

[Pete Lewis]

and you need to add the rouges gallery of guys who fit the felt and cup the wrong way round with the felt inboard under the cup   ,between cup and bearing  !!!   Pete