windle Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 hi alljust joined, own a 1965 herald 12/50, had it about 2 mounths love it, you know me dad had one.QUESTION ... need new hub on rear near side . theres a hub off a 13/60 on ebay are they the samecheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Yes, tey are the same. BUT is it just he hub you are after?? I ask as it is near enough impossible to remove a hub from the driveshaft unless you happen to have the proper triumph/churchill hub-puller. Other ones will break and/or damage the hub.usual approach if wanting to "recycle" parts is to fit a known good complete halfshaft assembly. If in sussex I have a few littering my driveway ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 13/60 shafts are thicker than earlier Heralds so if you replace one whole assembly then it would be best to replace the pair to match.Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Mark, where did you get that from? or are you referring to the diff (internal) shafts which did change? All the hubs/shafts are the same (OK, not rotoflex, and late spits/GT6 have the 1" longer shaft) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I thought that early Heralds did have thinner shafts than say a Herald 13/6 or a Vitesse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 nope, got a part number 128135 halfshaft for all heralds, spitfires (up until fh50000) and GT6 mk1.Likewise the actual hub fits everything except rotoflex cars.The joys of refinding my Kippings catalogue :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I had an argument with a guy on a Spitfire forum about this subject a few years ago. He was adamant about the thicker driveshafts, and I found references to the same thing all over that site, mostly originating from the same member. Until then I'd never heard of it, I'm guessing it's one of those BS 'facts' that's now been written often enough for it to get accepted. I suspect it originated as confusion between the thicker diff output shafts from 1967, and the longer driveshafts of the late Spitfires.Fact is the hubs, trunnions, bearings and driveshafts are interchangeable from the earliest to the latest Heralds, and all Vitesses until the Rotoflex cars. There are a few anomalies with brake backplates on the earliest Heralds, but that's really not relevant.Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 heraldcoupe wrote:...I'm guessing it's one of those BS 'facts' that's now been written often enough for it to get accepted. I suspect it originated as confusion between the thicker diff output shafts from 1967, and the longer driveshafts of the late Spitfires.Somehow, Bill, your current .sig file is especially appropriate here:'"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln' ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Well you learn something every day, I drew my reference from a 1967 road test report from Motor Magazine. It didn't say whether it was the driveshafts or the diff output shafts that were thicker, I just took it that it was the driveshafts that were beefed up. Well that's me put right after believing something incorrect for thirty odd years!Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 1218 wrote:Well you learn something every day, I drew my reference from a 1967 road test report from Motor Magazine. It didn't say whether it was the driveshafts or the diff output shafts that were thicker, I just took it that it was the driveshafts that were beefed up. You may at least have pinpointed the original source of the misinformation!Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Quote: "... a diaphragm spring clutch is now used and is of slightly larger diameter (6 1/2 in.) and the axle and half shafts have both been strengthened to cope with the extra loads."C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 From that quote it sounds as if the "reporter" was confused...or just careless with terminology and chronology. As I recall, the larger diaphragm clutch came well before the strengthened diff. bits (Mk2 Spitfire on the clutch and Mk3 Spitfire on the diff.; presumably a somewhat parallel situation with later Herald 1200 v. Herald 13/60). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time)! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The thicker diff output shafts were introduced early in the life of the Mk3 Spitfire, but the earliest examples of the Mk3 had the original thin shafts. According to parts lists, all 13/60s got the thicker output shafts, with the 1200 being commonised soon after. As far as I am aware, the diaphragm clutch did indeed come in with the Mk2 Spitfire. The clutch change seems a little more woolly with Heralds, and I don't trust the change points quoted in the parts list completely.I was told some years ago that the halfshafts were strengthened after the introduction of the Vitesse 6, but that this was a metallurgical issue rather than any change in dimensions. Whether that's true or not I don't know, I've certainly not seen anything in writing to add credence to it. If there was a change, it certainly wasn't reflected in a change of part number. Possibly another conclusion extrapolated from that road test?Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 then in the press there's the artistic play on words, when half shafts become drive shafts ,our april 64 1600 had a HB diff close to the com number,sequence/age , had the larger dia, short/output/halfshaft (or whatever you want to call them)and the state of the car I woud believe(Hmmm) that it was original Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Triumph may have had some quirks in production methods, but the installation of prototype parts three years ahead of going into general production seems unlikely. The HB diff originally had large flanges on thin output shafts, a unique combination with an unenviable record for breakages. I'd venture it's more likely the car was subject to a main dealer diff rebuild after 1967, by which time the stronger parts would have been available. I wonder if there are any service bulletins relating to this kind of upgrade?Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windle Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 hi sorry havent replyed, lost all internet.. when i brought the car was told knocking was either the diff or the uv joint. took it to the old boy in the local garage he had a look and told me noise was from the hub, he advised me its easyer to change the whole thing due to it being nyon inpossible to get it off.. do i need to replace both sides then with 13/60. would use 12/50 but seem to be as rare as hens teeth. ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windle Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 cliftyhanger wrote:Yes, tey are the same. BUT is it just he hub you are after?? I ask as it is near enough impossible to remove a hub from the driveshaft unless you happen to have the proper triumph/churchill hub-puller. Other ones will break and/or damage the hub.usual approach if wanting to "recycle" parts is to fit a known good complete halfshaft assembly. If in sussex I have a few littering my driveway ;D hi cliffhanger, am just down the road in yapton near littlehampton. would love to take you up on that offer, if poss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 3476 wrote:hi sorry havent replyed, lost all internet.. when i brought the car was told knocking was either the diff or the uv joint. took it to the old boy in the local garage he had a look and told me noise was from the hub, he advised me its easyer to change the whole thing due to it being nyon inpossible to get it off.. do i need to replace both sides then with 13/60. would use 12/50 but seem to be as rare as hens teeth. ::)Did he explain how the hub is making this noise? It just seems a highly unlikely cause in my experience, though of course nothing is impossible,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Tis indeed an unusual place to knock, and most problems with hub bearings are difficult to detect until serious damage has been done. Anyway, I am in Hove. I will see which shafts I have kinging about, all will probably have the large type diff flange, so that will need swapping (ideal time to pop a new UJ in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windle Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 seems silly but i think he did, not sure if he ment something inside, knock when at slow speed and after going out in it weekend daughter said she couldnt feel her legs so must be vibrating quite bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windle Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 cliftyhanger wrote:Tis indeed an unusual place to knock, and most problems with hub bearings are difficult to detect until serious damage has been done. Anyway, I am in Hove. I will see which shafts I have kinging about, all will probably have the large type diff flange, so that will need swapping (ideal time to pop a new UJ in)cheers much appreciated.thanks everyone for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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