WHICH BRAKE PADS

[doctee]

Hi All,
         Time to change the brake pads on the Herald, which pads do you guys recommend, I only use the Herald on the road but the present pads don't have any "bite" if you know what I mean they stop ok.
Is there any point in uprating the master cylinder, if so what do you recommend.
also where am I best obtaining the pads etc from.
thanks
Doctee

[JohnD]

doc,

"Bite" is bit subjective, like the adjectives used by wine writers, esp. when you say the car stops alright.
What is it you want?

"Uprated" pads mean that they are formulated to work when they are hotter than than normal pads, so that even if stressed by heavy and frequent braking they won't fade.   Is that your style of road driving?  If not, and to be honest no one with a right mind would drive like that on todays public roads, then no point in using anything other than good quality, ordinary pads.

Friction depends entirely on the pressure between the two surfaces.    If you find that you brakes lack something, then it may mean that you are not able to exert the designed pressure on the brakes, and that an overhaul of your brakes is indicated before making significant mods.  But if you can cause the brakes to lock the wheels at moderate speed on a good surface, then your brakes'  efficiency is greater than your tyres' adhesion, and no overhaul is needed. (Do this in a safe place!)

The function of the master cylinder is rather like a lever.   A long lever can exert more pressure (as it were) than a short one, and a narrow master can do the same.   But just like the long lever, you have to move the end much further and the brake pedal travel will increase, giving you a very different 'feel' to the brakes, which you may like, or not.

But I'd say, brake overhaul  first.

John

[Nick Jones]

Doc,

John is quite right in what he says and it is important to be sure that everything is up to scratch and working as it should.  However, in my experiences (with Vitesse brakes more than Herald), most of the "standard" pads currently available lack bite and need higher pedal pressures than the original asbestos ones would have done.  The best upgrade I have found was Mintex 1144 pads which were street ahead of what I had been using.  We did manage to fade them on the HCR and I upgraded again to Ferodo DS2500.  The latter are rather pricey but did not fade at all on the 10CR in spite of some fairly unreasonable treatment!  I suspect the Mintex 1144s will be fine for most!

Cheers

Nick

[doctee]

HI,
Thanks for the swift replies.
Are type 12 and 14 front brake calipers interchangeable and what is the difference ?
Where is the best (cheapest) place to get Mintex pads from , are EBC greenstuff any good ?
regards
Doctee

[Steve Cureton]

Doctee, I was told that type 12 and 14 are not interchangeable as one is supposed to utilise an adapter of some kind to suit differences in the suspension leg (I'm sure someone here will know more), but I have both types (one on each car) and both look the same to me. Type 12 and 14 pads are slightly different but type 14 can be made to fit type 12 (not that I would recommend this) but not the other way around. Type 14 were fitted to later cars as standard (from around 1965 I think) and I'm told provide better braking efficiency.

I fitted Greenstuff pads to my last Herald and there was no noticeable improvement.

[heraldcoupe]

The mountings are the same, but the type 14 runs a very close fit to the hub - sometimes fouls, other times it doesn't. For this reason, the hubs were machined at their rim when the type 14 calipers were introduced. Fitting type 12 in place of type 14s is no problem, but there's no reason why anyone should want to do that as it's a backward step,
Cheers,
Bill.

[Pete Lewis]

our Vit6 had type 12s which we tried EBC greenstuff pads , it didnt stop but you could clean the wheels easily !!
we upped to type 16 and the bigger disc you need a type 16  caliper mount on your upright as the fixing hole centres on 12s are 1/2 hole out of line .
now use mintex 1144 stops on a tanner but there's a lot of pad clatter as these did not have and anti rattle spring  just need to source a squeal shim with a sprung end  
pete

[doctee]

thanks for the info guy's.
regards
Doctee

[Nick Jones]

I tried EBC before the Mintex.  Didn't like them as they didn't work any better than the el-cheapo greased cardboard ones I had before them and they squealed horribly.

Mintex 1144s stopped the car but do turn your wheels black.  You can always wash the wheels though.

Nick

[doctee]

Hi Nick,
        Can you tell me where i can get a set of Mintex 1144's from, or the part no, my claipers are type 14's.
regards
Doctee

[Nick Jones]

MGB533 1144 compound

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?manufacturers_id=63 - usually the cheapest, should be about £ 30

http://www.raceparts-direct.com/products/brakes_and_brake_components.asp?section=Mintex+Brake+Pads - worth a try, give good service.

Also Merlin Motorsport or Demon Tweaks but your wallet will get gang raped....... you have been warned!

Nick

[doctee]

Hi All,
Thanks for the info, I have ordered 2 x type 14 brake calipers( brand new £95 + p and p) and a set of Mintex 1144's (£39 + p and p ,thanks for the part numbers Nick )
thanks again to everyone
regards Doctee

[Freebird]

Nick

These are MGB525 - do you know whether they equivalent to MGB533?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-Vitesse-2-BRAKE-PADS-MINTEX-SET-NEW-BOXED-/180338652582?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item29fd0575a6

I want decent brakes for when I tackle the Stelvio in August and my pads are getting low.

Cheers

Glen.

[Deleted User]

Freebird wrote:

Nick

These are MGB525 - do you know whether they equivalent to MGB533?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-Vitesse-2-BRAKE-PADS-MINTEX-SET-NEW-BOXED-/180338652582?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item29fd0575a6

I want decent brakes for when I tackle the Stelvio in August and my pads are getting low.

Cheers

Glen.

Good luck on that one!  I cooked up the brakes on my Merc on that one …

Ah, the glorious alpine scenery, the smell of cooking mintex and the faint waft of red hot discs coupled with the squealing from the passenger seat 8)

[Davemate]

i have got dolomite pads ready to fit in my  herald , the friction pad is bigger than on standard herald pads
so hopefull gives  slight better brakes

[CharlieB]

Freebird wrote:

Nick
These are MGB525 - do you know whether they equivalent to MGB533?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-Vitesse-2-BRAKE-PADS-MINTEX-SET-NEW-BOXED-/180338652582?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item29fd0575a6

No, MGB525 are standard pads, MGB533 are M1144 "fast road" pads.

[Freebird]

Hi

I contacted rally design to get some MGB533 pads for my Mk2 Vitesse and they kindly faxed me the sizes as they didn't list them against any Triumphs. Hopefully you can see from the photo that my spare set are larger at 78.3 x 64.0 than MGB533 at 63.4 x 55.4

I haven't gone to the extent of taking te old ones off the car yet, my spares could be wrong but can anyone shed any light?

Glen

[Freebird]

Bigger pic

[The Count]

would there be any difference with a mk1 vit? i would quite like some of these mintex 1144 did rallysport say which part no/ or car model they have them under as you said no triumph section :(

[Nick Jones]

Glen,

78 x 63 ish matches the part worn green stuff set that has been on my car.  I think those pictured are Spit type 14 ones.  I quoted MGB 533 in response to Doctees request re type 14 calipers.

I think the correct no. for the type 16 calipers used on the Vitesse 2L is MGB633 but note that is from memory so must be checked before investing!  Rally Design will know them as fitting Escort Mk2 and Cortina MK3 & 4 which also use Type 16 calipers.

Note that the later type 16PB and M16 calipers use smaller pins to hold the pads so you'll probably have to drill the holes in the pads out to suit the fat pins on your 16Ps - this is normal......

Count,

If you mean 1600 Vitesse, they have different calipers - can't remember which off hand (type 12???), so be careful!

Nick

[Freebird]

Nick_Jones wrote:

Glen,

I think the correct no. for the type 16 calipers used on the Vitesse 2L is MGB 6 33 but note that is from memory so must be checked before investing!  Rally Design will know them as fitting Escort Mk2 and Cortina MK3 & 4 which also use Type 16 calipers.

Nick

Thanks Nick, that makes a lot of sense. I will ring them in the morning.

Cheers

Glen.

[The Count]

its 2l mk1 vit. err... at the risk of sounding stupid how does one tell what type calipers are which??  :B  cheers

[Slimboyfat]

Freebird wrote:

Thanks Nick, that makes a lot of sense. I will ring them in the morning.

Cheers

Glen.

MGB633 are for the later metric calipers. To modify for your car you will have to drill the pad pin holes out to 1/4".

We list the same thing under our part number;

http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=&ptno=gbp216mintex

[Freebird]

Slimboyfat wrote:

MGB633 are for the later metric calipers. To modify for your car you will have to drill the pad pin holes out to 1/4".

We list the same thing under our part number;

http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=&ptno=gbp216mintex

Thanks mate - wish I had known (or had searched better) earlier, I ordered a set from Rally design this morning. Similar price tho.

Cheers

Glen.

[Nick Jones]

716 wrote:

its 2l mk1 vit. err... at the risk of sounding stupid how does one tell what type calipers are which??  :B  cheers

I think all 2L Vitesse have the 16P calipers so that's what yours will be.  Just possible the last Mk2s had 16PBs...... Mk3 Gt6 and TR6 certainly did.  It is stamped/cast into them somewhere - can't remember where offhand.  

As already mentioned the basic pad shape is the same for all of the 16P range - just the locating holes are different and may need drilling out for the earlier calipers - very easy to do.

Nick