New brake pads & pedal to the ground !

[WIMPUS]

2053 wrote:

Who need Brakes? they only slow you down!
:)
D

Yeah that's right ! ;D
But then again not so fun when you push the pedal and nothing happens...  ??)

[WIMPUS]

So got everything back together again ... first pumps wasn't much, but could see more fluid coming out of the front nipples then before !

Pump once or twice and got a very good pedal !
So the real test was driving, so back on the long straight where nearly no cars are ...

Did an emergency stop and they did lock up (roads are a it wet), but needed to press a bit deep.
But if i pump once they do lock up very easy !

Soooo.... we've got brakes !

So now just need to check for leaks & another better bleed :)


I was so angry the last 2 days on the car and really hating it.. but then you are driving around and it's all over  ::)

[yorkshire_spam]

Good news! Glad you fixed it Wim

[Pete Lewis]

you need to do a bedding in sequence with 1144

if you have the plastic squeal shims they can be a bit spongy to start  with and check you dont have excessive bearing end float ,

attached

Pete

[BrendanD]

Wim
I use silicon fluid. I know some people think it feels spongy, but its much kinder on the seals and it doesn't wreck your paint!

[WIMPUS]

peterhlewis wrote:

you need to do a bedding in sequence with 1144

if you have the plastic squeal shims they can be a bit spongy to start  with and check you dont have excessive bearing end float ,

attached

Pete

Has been done when i first fitted them.
But needed to pump the brakes then very hard ...

But they do grab very well.

[WIMPUS]

This morning had another bleed ...
Still not goood ! (angry)(angry)

You can still press the pedal to halfway then it stops..
When pumping the pedal goes a bit harder, but when you press hard you can still push it to halfway.

So seems the front chamber of the master is losing pressure and can't build it up good also.
Really pissed off now.. better ordered myself another master on friday, then i would have had it tomorrow !

Thinking now to buy another master from the uk (will be here around the end of the week then  :-/ :-/) and if the brakes do work good, then going back with my old 'new' one to the shop.
As it's not a year old. :(

[WIMPUS]

Is this a good seller ??
Seems to be a lot cheaper then james paddock for a tandem..

http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/TRIUMPH-Spitfire-TANDEM-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-ASSEMBLY-/191554855997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c998f243d

[DougBGT6]

If your pumping the pedal and it goes harder, you've got air in the system I think. Sorry!  :B  Also halfway down isn't too good. How well adjusted are your rear slaves? Are they self adjusters? Mine are but they don't work too well.  ;D  

Also are you bleeding the brakes in the right order? it can be confusing. On mine the pipe goes from the master cylinder on the driver's side, across the bulkhead to the passenger side, down to the passenger wheel and then another pipe across the chassis to the driver's wheel. Similarly at the back, so the furthest from the MC is the driver's side rear wheel and the closest the passenger side front. Which is sort of counter intuitive.

[WIMPUS]

9077 wrote:

If your pumping the pedal and it goes harder, you've got air in the system I think. Sorry!  :B  Also halfway down isn't too good. How well adjusted are your rear slaves? Are they self adjusters? Mine are but they don't work too well.  ;D  

Also are you bleeding the brakes in the right order? it can be confusing. On mine the pipe goes from the master cylinder on the driver's side, across the bulkhead to the passenger side, down to the passenger wheel and then another pipe across the chassis to the driver's wheel. Similarly at the back, so the furthest from the MC is the driver's side rear wheel and the closest the passenger side front. Which is sort of counter intuitive.

Rears are correct adjusted (no self adjusters on a spitfire)
It all did work good before i changed the pads.

Mine is a LHD, so the one pipe runs from the mc to the pwda valve and then to the back.
The other pipe is running from the mc also to the pwda valve and then to a front brakes.

So my right rear wheel is the furthest away.
I always do rear right, rear left, front right, front left.
Always done it like this and never had problems .

in my opinion it seems that the front chamber of the mc isn't filling up good and not holding pressure.

Going to do another bleed , as i bleeded the fronts this afternoon as a test and seems to brake a bit better .... but will see !  :o

[Pete Lewis]

have you tried , long bleed hose and have catch bottle high above the brakes  ( bubbles have to rise up)
do front and rear at same time
pedal down quick , nip bleeders, pedal back slow , open bleeder  down quick ...and so on

always nip the bleed with pedal down stroke

Pete

[JensH]

I keep wondering why seals on your MC don't last longer.
Something not right me thinks.

Did a PO try to clean pipes with some alcohol based fluid? That's a no go, but seen before.

I would renew all pipes, hoses and all seals. And then go for another brand of brake fluid?

[WIMPUS]

JensH wrote:

I keep wondering why seals on your MC don't last longer.
Something not right me thinks.

Did a PO try to clean pipes with some alcohol based fluid? That's a no go, but seen before.

I would renew all pipes, hoses and all seals. And then go for another brand of brake fluid?

All the pipes are new, all new cunifer/copper lines from canley's.
Calipers are rebuild by me(new seals, pistons, bleed nipple), master is a new one (Lucas/TRW one), pwda was rebuild (but with wrong seals as i couldn't find the right ones, so i knew it was going to fail once).
Rear brakes are also all new..

So everything is new exept the pwda valve body and the calipers body itself ..

[WIMPUS]

peterhlewis wrote:

have you tried , long bleed hose and have catch bottle high above the brakes  ( bubbles have to rise up)
do front and rear at same time
pedal down quick , nip bleeders, pedal back slow , open bleeder  down quick ...and so on

always nip the bleed with pedal down stroke

Pete

Not tried that, just had another bleed and no air in the system..
Pedal goes still to half way (then it seems to hit a wall :s ) ..seems in the front part of the master isn't building up pressure or letting in enough fluid :/

When i undo a bleed nipple from the rear it goes to the floor..
Just had had a try with slow bleeding, pwda was in the center .. but still nothing  :-/


I still find it strange .. just pushed the pistons back and no brakes anymore ..
Tomorrow going to get the car up at the front again and have a look at the front (again).
Going to order a new master also, found one cheap (half price then here in belgium, otherwise it's a spare one) .
:-/

[nang]

[quote=4526]

Rears are correct adjusted (no self adjusters on a spitfire)
It all did work good before i changed the pads.


Wim,
Judging by your comment it's surely something happening in the front brakes.
Tony.

[JensH]

4526 wrote:

So everything is new exept the pwda valve body and the calipers body itself ..

Okay, should rule out some of my concerns above.
Are you using anything else than brake fluid for cleaning the MC when you have changed seals?

[WIMPUS]

JensH wrote:

Okay, should rule out some of my concerns above.
Are you using anything else than brake fluid for cleaning the MC when you have changed seals?

used brake cleaner to get everything clean and then sprayed in it with air.
Then refitted everything with red rubber grease

[JensH]

Brake cleaner?
What kind?
(Sorry, very unstable internet here right now!)

I have always been told, never use anything else than brake fluid to clean brake parts that will hold brake fluid later.....

[WIMPUS]

JensH wrote:

Brake cleaner?
What kind?
(Sorry, very unstable internet here right now!)

I have always been told, never use anything else than brake fluid to clean brake parts that will hold brake fluid later.....

Valvoline, always used it for everything, even for the front calipers.

[WIMPUS]

4526 wrote:

Valvoline, always used it for everything, even for the front calipers.

But i still do find it strange that i don't have front brakes from when i changed the pads, nearly no pressure at the pedal (even after 20 pumps).
New seal kit improved it a bit, can get a bit more pressure at the pedal.. but if you press hard then it goes to halfway again.
So not a bit improvement . :/

[Freebird]

Hi Wim

I had similar symptoms when I fitted 1144 pads to my Vitesse. It was not air, but the pistons retracted too far into the calipers meaning more pedal travel to get them back into contact with the discs.

I tried all sorts to fix it but failed (there is a thread on here somewhere). After last years trip to the Spa Classic, I took the 1144s out and put the old pads back in only so I didn't have to clean black dust of my wheels every 5 minutes and hey presto the pedal went back to normal.

I have never fathomed why this happened, but it did. So if you can lay your hands on some alternative pads, give it a go perhaps?

Glen.

[Nick Jones]

I have had a similar effect when fitting new pads.  Not Mintex, but possibly Greenstuff.

In the end I filed out the holes for the retaining pins - not so much because they were too small (though they were a bit snug) but more because they had a very pronounced edge on them where they'd been stamped out.

My theory was that this edge was catching on the pins and preventing them from sliding.  Instead the movement of the pads when the pedal was pushed was twisting them around the pins and bending the pins slightly.  This bend was too small to permanently deform the pins, so they'd spring back when the pedal was released and take the pads back with them.  Certainly tidying the holes helped alot.

Nick

[WIMPUS]

Nick_Jones wrote:

I have had a similar effect when fitting new pads.  Not Mintex, but possibly Greenstuff.

In the end I filed out the holes for the retaining pins - not so much because they were too small (though they were a bit snug) but more because they had a very pronounced edge on them where they'd been stamped out.

My theory was that this edge was catching on the pins and preventing them from sliding.  Instead the movement of the pads when the pedal was pushed was twisting them around the pins and bending the pins slightly.  This bend was too small to permanently deform the pins, so they'd spring back when the pedal was released and take the pads back with them.  Certainly tidying the holes helped alot.

Nick

I know at the previous pads i needed to drill out the holes as the pins didn't want to go through them and also needed to adjust the sides of the pads as they didn't want to fit into the caliper.

Had another look 15min ago at the pistons, freebird told me what to look for via fb.
The pads do move maybe max 1mm when you press the pedal.
I had the pads out to move the pistons along ..
Needed to pump a few times before the piston even wanted to move !

The outer seal came off and by my surprise it seemes the pistons are already a bit rusty  :o
It's very light rust.
my old ones looked not that bad really.

[markcro]

Were they brand new pistons? I smothered mine in red rubber grease but that then allowed the dust boot to keep popping off as it was so slippery. The new replacement pistons that I got were just steel whereas the old ones were chrome plated. I think that I'll go stainless steel the next time.

[WIMPUS]

markcro wrote:

Were they brand new pistons? I smothered mine in red rubber grease but that then allowed the dust boot to keep popping off as it was so slippery. The new replacement pistons that I got were just steel whereas the old ones were chrome plated. I think that I'll go stainless steel the next time.

These are 8 month old brand new steel pistons rom paddock, i also installed them with red rubber grease.
Dust boot was still on it good.